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Thread: Pronounciation

  1. #1
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    Pronounciation

    I'm currently learning Russian by the Pimsleur program. I'm on lesson 24 of 30 in Russian I. The program is great, but they seem to mispronounce some words. I base this on the spelling of the words (since Russian is mostly phonetic) and on native speakers. For example:

    The forms of the verb "to live".
    я живу
    мы живём
    вы живёте

    I think they should be pronounced:
    zhe-voo
    zhe-vyom
    zhe-vyote

    However, the CD's pronounce them:
    zhe-voo (correctly)
    zhe-gum
    zhe-geutse

    The point is the в is pronounced like a г. I don't understand this.

    Also, one more question. The Pimsleur CD's often pronounce т's like ц's. For example, "you want" sounds like "ha-tsi-tse" instead of "ha-ti-te".

    I'm sorry this post is long, but i would appreciate if somebody can help me with this.

    Thanks,
    Platinum
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    JJ
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    Re: Pronounciation

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum
    The forms of the verb "to live".
    я живу
    мы живём
    вы живёте

    I think they should be pronounced:
    zhe-voo
    zhe-vyom
    zhe-vyote
    It should be:
    Yah zhi-voo
    m'i zhi-vyom
    v'i zhi-vyotyeh

    The '-y-' and ' after consonants means that consonants are soft.
    Gib immer 100% bei der Arbeit: 12% am Montag, 23% am Dienstag, 40% am Mittwoch, 20% am Donnerstag, 5% am Freitag ...

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    So basically, like I said. The CD is wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

    What about for the "T" sounding like a "ц"?
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    JJ
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    Ц is very close to 'ts', it doesn't sound like T.
    Gib immer 100% bei der Arbeit: 12% am Montag, 23% am Dienstag, 40% am Mittwoch, 20% am Donnerstag, 5% am Freitag ...

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    Re: Pronounciation

    Please read the very last part of my original post. The Pimsleur CD's often pronounce т's like ц's. For example, they say "you want" like "ha-tsi-tse". I think it should be "ha-ti-te".

    Am i correct?
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    Re: Pronounciation

    Yes you are. It is hah-ti-tye/ha-ti-t'eh, ha-tsi-tse sounds like chinise accent.
    Gib immer 100% bei der Arbeit: 12% am Montag, 23% am Dienstag, 40% am Mittwoch, 20% am Donnerstag, 5% am Freitag ...

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    Thanks for the clarification. It seems that I need to stick to what I know about the language and correct the CD when needed. I've also noticed that when a word has "ть" at the end, the CD almost makes it sound like it ends in "ц". Like девять. They make it sound like "divits".
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    Старший оракул
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    Man, for "being the best", I have heard a lot of bad things about the Pimsleur method... Thank God that's pretty much the ONLY book/CD I didn't buy!!!
    -Fantom
    "Alright, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me, so let's just figure this out and I'll get back to killing you with beer."

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    Plat - you're in Delaware!! It can't be too hard to find a local Russian-language teacher (must be a native, preferrably Muscovite! or Petersburger!) for at least one lesson where you can learn the pronunciation of sounds that we do not have in English. You can't do it using letters of the English alphabet and apostrophes. Even JJ who should know better wants you to pronounce мы as m'i whatever that represents (not in any transcription I've ever seen).

    Come down to No'calana and I'll give you a lesson.

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    For English speakers palatalised "T" sounds sometimes like something else - TS for example. They are just soft (palatalised) TS. Some people may pronounce palatalised T with a small whistle, that makes it more like TS'. Belarussians always pronounce it that way, so хотите is хацице with palatalised ts' in both cases.

    Pimsleur uses native speakers for their recordings, so I am surprised if they mispronounce something.

    I don't know how you can mix G and V, though.
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    There is nothing wrong with the pronounciation of Pimsleur Russian. What is wrong is the quality of the device that is used to play and listen to the CD's and possibly the recording also.

    People who can not hear the CD clearly usually need to adjust their EQ or buy new speakers. It's not that hard, Really! In any case I would take the pronounciation of Pimsleurs native Russian speakers
    over the "pronouciation" from a textbook any day.
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

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    The Pimsleur uses native speakers in their Russian program. Their speech is a lot slower and more articulate than what you can hear in a typical conversation, but I do not think they make any pronunciation mistakes. If you exactly specify the lesson and time, I can check a particular phrase if you like. But most likely, you are either incorrectly imagining how Russian is supposed to sound (for one, russian 't' is different from English 't', pretty much all sounds, both consonants and vowels, are different from their analogues in English. Plus the pronunciation varies from word to word, like in any other language), or you have really bad headphones.

    I do have an issue with Pimsleur phrases though: some are quite unnatural and some are plain wrong. "Я хочу пить кое-что, тоже". Ugh!

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    Yeh, and also they say adeen for the number one, when it should be odeen
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Yeh, and also they say adeen for the number one, when it should be odeen

    What did you expect to hear?

    "один" is pronounced "adeen" because O is unaccented.
    Anatoli - Анатолий - أناتولي - 阿纳托利 - アナトーリー - 아나톨리

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    Plat - you're in Delaware!! It can't be too hard to find a local Russian-language teacher (must be a native, preferrably Muscovite! or Petersburger!) for at least one lesson where you can learn the pronunciation of sounds that we do not have in English. You can't do it using letters of the English alphabet and apostrophes. Even JJ who should know better wants you to pronounce мы as m'i whatever that represents (not in any transcription I've ever seen).

    Come down to No'calana and I'll give you a lesson.
    Chaika. My wife speaks "some" Russian. She's a native Bulgaria who used to know Russian, but in 7 years in America she's forgotten a lot. Where in NC you at? I'm originally from east Tennessee!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Анатолий
    For English speakers palatalised "T" sounds sometimes like something else - TS for example. They are just soft (palatalised) TS. Some people may pronounce palatalised T with a small whistle, that makes it more like TS'. Belarussians always pronounce it that way, so хотите is хацице with palatalised ts' in both cases.

    Pimsleur uses native speakers for their recordings, so I am surprised if they mispronounce something.

    I don't know how you can mix G and V, though.
    I do know what you mean. Like I said in my last post, my wife is Bulgarian. Letters like T, L, etc are pronounced with the tongue on the teeth, rather than on the roof of the mouth. It's kinda funny how American's have trouble "palatizing" these Russian letters. I know my wife has trouble with the English "TH". When she says it it's more like "T".
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    There is nothing wrong with the pronounciation of Pimsleur Russian. What is wrong is the quality of the device that is used to play and listen to the CD's and possibly the recording also.

    People who can not hear the CD clearly usually need to adjust their EQ or buy new speakers. It's not that hard, Really! In any case I would take the pronounciation of Pimsleurs native Russian speakers
    over the "pronouciation" from a textbook any day.
    DDT,
    I'm not saying you're wrong. I AM listening to the CD's in my car...with crappy speakers. But I really think I'm hearing it right. They try to be really clear and speak slowly. Maybe they're not "WRONG", just a little different than my ear wants to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by laxxy
    The Pimsleur uses native speakers in their Russian program. Their speech is a lot slower and more articulate than what you can hear in a typical conversation, but I do not think they make any pronunciation mistakes. If you exactly specify the lesson and time, I can check a particular phrase if you like. But most likely, you are either incorrectly imagining how Russian is supposed to sound (for one, russian 't' is different from English 't', pretty much all sounds, both consonants and vowels, are different from their analogues in English. Plus the pronunciation varies from word to word, like in any other language), or you have really bad headphones.

    I do have an issue with Pimsleur phrases though: some are quite unnatural and some are plain wrong. "Я хочу пить кое-что, тоже". Ugh!
    Laxxy,
    I will get back to you with the exact lessons and times. I suppose they DON'T make mistakes. I know I'm not perfect in my understanding of Russian. Especially when it comes to sounds that we don't exactly have in English. So far, i'm focusing more on learning the vocabulary and I can straighten out the EXACT pronunciation later.

    Thanks everybody for your input.
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    Another question. Pimsleur's CD's say you shouldn't use anything else while using their program. Is this just a marketing tool to keep you using their product, or can I use other materials too?

    Can anybody give me some input on how to speed up the learning process? I think Pimsleur is great (with the exceptions on the pronunciation issues we've been discussing) but it seems to go too slowly. I'm a pretty quick learner and I think i can handle a little more vocabulary than they give me. However, I don't want to just learn words sporatically.

    Thanks all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum
    Another question. Pimsleur's CD's say you shouldn't use anything else while using their program. Is this just a marketing tool to keep you using their product, or can I use other materials too?

    Can anybody give me some input on how to speed up the learning process? I think Pimsleur is great (with the exceptions on the pronunciation issues we've been discussing) but it seems to go too slowly. I'm a pretty quick learner and I think i can handle a little more vocabulary than they give me. However, I don't want to just learn words sporatically.

    Thanks all.
    If Pimsleur says you don't need anything else they are wrong. Use a textbook like New Penguin along with it. It helps you make sense of the subtle Russian endings you hear in Pimsleur. Besides that in order for Pimsleur to teach enough vocabulary they would need to provide at least 10 or 20 more levels.
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    If Pimsleur says you don't need anything else they are wrong. Use a textbook like New Penguin along with it. It helps you make sense of the subtle Russian endings you hear in Pimsleur. Besides that in order for Pimsleur to teach enough vocabulary they would need to provide at least 10 or 20 more levels.
    You mean like 10 or 20 more LEVELS of 30 lessons each? Currently I'm on lesson 26 of Russian I. I know how to say some things, but there's NO WAY i can read anything or have a conversation. I don't feel like I will be able to even after all 90 lessons.

    I thought about just making my own vocabulary list. Pimsleur will teach me how the language basically works (sentence structure, verb conjugation, etc), but the vocabulary is just too small.

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