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I am a little confused about how to pronounce the character Ч. From what I've read, it's supposed to have a 'ch' sound. In oчень, it does! But in Что, it seems to take on a 'sh' sound, which is represented by another character in Russian.
Am I just mishearing the pronunciation, or...? Maybe it is a 'ch' sound and it's difficult to hear?
If not, what differentiates the way you use it?
Что is usually pronounced што or even щё in really informal conversation.
You aren't mishearing. In Очень it is 'ch' but you are right, in Что, it does take on a 'sh' sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowafterflood
Generally 'Ч' is pronounced 'ch' the above is just a special exception.
It's hard to pronounce Ch + a consonant, so it changed to 'sh' instead. It's one of those confusing things that simply is, that you just have to learn to accept even though it technically is a 'wrong' pronounciation going by pronounciation the rules.
ч is usually pronounced ch . The pronounciation of что is an exception, that's all.
Here are a couple of examples.
I hope you don't mind an American accent.
Что нового?
What's new?
Очень хорошо.
Very good.
что нового?Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatts59
It's also a question of where the speaker comes from. Moscovites say "што", people from St. Petersburg frequently say "что"... At least I believe it used to be this way... You can say it either way and it will be correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowafterflood
no way is ч-то a Saint Pete thing, up there they generally say што, in and around Moscow more and more people are saying шо informally. The ч-то pronounciation I think is mainly restricted to elderly jews with Odessan background.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM
Don't know who you've been listening to.... probably a Ukrainian :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Darobat
Я не знав, що ти говориш українською мовою.
Ч is also pronounced Ш in words that are compounds of Что
e.g.
Чтобы
Ничто
Что-то/нибудь/либо etc.
Тогда уж шоQuote:
Originally Posted by Darobat
I was born in St. Petersburg (Leningrad at the time) and spent most of my life there... I do sometimes say что as written and sometimes I say што. We were told on many occasions that making sounds softer is a Moscow thing, as they would say дожжи instead of дожди, булошная instead of булочная, etc. I think however that these differences in speach are evaporating if haven't evaporated completely with massive migration and with help of TV...Quote:
Originally Posted by igorfa100
Exactly. I think 99% of Peterburgers say [што]
Nobody say [щё] in really informal conversation. [Що] is way too Ukranian. The informal (not that "really" actually) contraction is [чо].Quote:
Originally Posted by Darobat
I can use [чо] in many situations. It's like 'to be going to' and 'gonna' I guess. I can use [чо] all along with freinds,parents etc. but I'll never say it on an interview for a job. Unless it's a slip of a toungue.
Ok, I knew there was something even shorter, but I guess I was slightly off.
To sum up, there are a few words whose Ч is pronounces as if it were Ш and the reason may or may not be dialectal. Конечно.
Thanks for your help. :)
Also, do any of you know of any good resources for a beginner in the language? Right now I am just interested in being conversational in Russian.
Not true. Чтиво, чтить, чванство, чморить and tons more are pronounced with ч, not ш.Quote:
It's hard to pronounce Ch + a consonant, so it changed to 'sh' instead.
Lets not forget the all important Чмо!Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Yep :-) :-) :-)
Apologies, I shouldn't have said 'changed', I adapted it from what I read a while ago here. I suppose I meant it's hard for non-native speakers to pronounce it as how it's read, I meant to stick to the Что example given it is pronounced with Ш.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I was looking for examples of words where it's pronounced phonetically though.
I know someone from Tyumen Oblast who says щё.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
If you say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by волк
Ukranians can be found outside Ukraine just as Scottish people don't all live in Scotland.Quote:
I know someone from Tyumen Oblast who says щё.
She's not from Ukraine. Do people in Kazakhstan also say щё? That might be where it comes from, although I don't think she was there for very long.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
You don't have to be born in Ukraine to be Ukranian. You just need to have Ukranian parents. You can find Ukranians in all ex-USSR republics, particularly in Kazakhstan - a lot of young people from all over the USSR once went to places like Kazakhstan to build factories, work in agriculture, etc. Probably, this is how her parents met. Щё is not a feature of an ethnic Kazakh accent.Quote:
She's not from Ukraine. Do people in Kazakhstan also say щё? That might be where it comes from, although I don't think she was there for very long.
i have a friend from Karaganda (Central Kazakstan) and him and his family say Щё. But they also say что... I thought it was just like slang. They ARN'T Ukrainian either. His mom is ethnic russian, but was born in kazakhstan. And his dad moved to kazakhstan from moscow. Sometimes I even say Щё and no one seems to think anything of it. It just sounds like younger generation/ street talk russian to me.
They usually say Чё not Щё. At least I can't remember someone said Щё (I'd be surprised if I heard it). I mean in Russia not Kazakhstan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy182
People imitating "блатной" speach ofen pronounse it like Чщщё (Нну тээ тщще). Those who have heard it know what I mean :).
well then that must be it. I mean, you know yourself! I say чё all the time. But sometimes it sounds like "sho"?Quote:
Originally Posted by net surfer
If you said щё, I'd notice it for sure. I think you say it like чо, I'm not sure but we'll find it out soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy182
[quote=net surfer]If you said щё, I'd notice it for sure. I think you say it like чо, I'm not sure but we'll find it out soon.[/quote:1bcnthu9]Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy182
Ya i guess i do say чо, even when typing but, i just thought that що what чо only, say like ч(ш)то.
Anyways ok whos cares. Узнаешь скоро.
It's even close to щё or шо or чщё etc. It's sometimes чё sometimes чо.