Thread: IPA Pronunciation for Russian

there are no "soft" or "softening" vowels. The vowel sounds are represented by SPELLING differences that do not reflect sound. The vowel letter is chosen based on the preceding consonant letter. Russian could do away with either Я Е И Ё Ю by using Ь instead: пьэть, мьач, йэйо, etc. That is, the vowel /e/ can be spelled E or Э depending on the previous consonant. The only anomaly is И,Ы, which do have distinctly different sounds, but they too could be covered by spelling rules.

Originally Posted by chaika

The only anomaly is И,Ы, which do have distinctly different sounds, but they too could be covered by spelling rules.

I do not think they have different sounds.

Okay I am sorry for all the confusion, I was finding this really hard to understand. It's like for a year I've imagined я and а as something different so reading all this didnt sink in until I found the perfect example;

Семья (File:Ru-семья.ogg - Wiktionary)
and Себя (File:Ru-себя.ogg - Wiktionary)

so the IPA for Семья is /sʲɪˈmʲjæ/ (С'ИМ'Я)
whereas Себя is /sʲɪˈbʲæ/ (С'ИБ'А)

if you look at the IPA or listen for себя (which probably isn't a surprise to you lot) there is no YA sound present, which is what I was led to believe from many Learn Russian websites. So basically my world has been flipped upsidedown. and I literally cannot pronounce Себя... the realisation that soft consonants arent simply made by putting a Y sound infront of the following vowel is also a massive shock to the system. I also find it literally impossible to make a sound of a Russian letter on its own and can only really pronounce the NAME of Russian letters such as Бэ Вэ Гэ Дэ rather than just the individual sound. So I mean I guess to start from ground zero, are their any links to websites which literally go through all the hard/soft sounds with audio so I can start again fresh. And just to clarify then, unless a VOWEL is at the start or follows a soft sign, it is pronounced exactly (or more similarly) to the non softening vowel and it is only the previous consonant which gives it this effect?

so the IPA for Семья is /sʲɪˈmʲjæ/ (С'ИМ'Я)

No, [с'эм'й'а]

whereas Себя is /sʲɪˈbʲæ/ (С'ИБ'А)

No, [с'эб'а]

Forget your IPA after all. There is no [и] in these words.

And just to clarify then, unless a VOWEL is at the start or follows a soft sign, it is pronounced exactly (or more similarly) to the non softening vowel and it is only the previous consonant which gives it this effect?

Yes. At least in theory. And they denoted similarly in Russian phonetic transcription. Russian phonetic transcription does not use я, e, ё symbols at all (I know that IPA guys can find difference even where there is not). Although both [ы] and [и] are used in school transcriptions, many sources say that Russian has only 5 vowels (а, о, э, и, у) http://russkiyjazik.ru/337/ , http://www.langust.ru/rus_gram/rus_gr04.shtml with which I agree.

the realisation that soft consonants arent simply made by putting a Y sound infront of the following vowel is also a massive shock to the system.

Even more: adding [й] after a consonant does not make it soft. For example:

подъезд [подйэзд] (first д is hard)
разъём [разйом] (з is hard)
вражья[вражйа] (ж is hard)

Forget your IPA after all. There is no [и] in these words.

But unstressed e is pronounced like [i]. So ShakeyX is right.

Originally Posted by Marcus

But unstressed e is pronounced like [i]. So ShakeyX is right.

Well according Russian phonetic analysis they should be pronounced as [э]. Note that in the case of unstressed о it says is should be pronounced [а], but it does not say anything about unstressed е. This is according the standard rules. And the records linked above confirms this.

Originally Posted by Anixx

Well according Russian phonetic analysis they should be pronounced as [э]. Note that in the case of unstressed о it says is should be pronounced [а], but it does not say anything about unstressed е. This is according the standard rules. And the records linked above confirms this.

What?!

Originally Posted by Marcus

What?!

I second this notion

I just read the rules and you are right. It becomes [и] in non-stressed positions in most cases.

Look here 刹鈞瑁 闔謐釿 ?辣鱶?驫釿 鞐艨鉋 痳髀諤鴉

And here Onlinedisk - 矗? ?琿蓚蔔 ?蜍鈞.

Phonetic analysis is taught in 4th grade (to pupils of the age of 10 if I am correct).

Well, theoretically speaking there are lots of different sounds in Russian depending on their position or environmemt. In unstressed syllables O and A sounds the same (except some foreign words like радио or unstressed prepositions like возле). И and Э also merge and any distinction is lost.
In practice unstressed O/A sound is "something like A" and unstressed Э/И vowel is "something like И", at least in standard pronunciation. Native Russian speakers perceive unstressed E as И and О as А, though strictly speaking the sounds are a little different and less clear (only they are the same phoneme and don't distinguish the words, though MAY be completely different sounds in some other language). Also, unstressed Я, as far as I can tell, becomes йи (word initial, like "ягу`ар") or "и" (after a consonant, like "поня`ла"). Unstressed А becomes Ы after Ж/Ш ("жал`еть" /жыл'эт'/). There may be deviations for some accents. Besides, older theatrical pronunciation (like, 50 years ago) encouraged actors to "brighten" the sound by not completely reducing unstressed Е to И, leaving the vowel still somewhats E-like. That's not how people speak in reality, and certainly not today.

[Also, unstressed Я, as far as I can tell, becomes йи (word initial, like "ягу`ар") [/quote]
What?
夥辣鱶?驫蓍 鞐艨鉋 焜黴 ?鞐褞辮蔡鱶褌 艪鼕鈞 鉈諤蜊 驪鈞瑁 痳髀諤鴉

Originally Posted by Anixx

[Also, unstressed Я, as far as I can tell, becomes йи (word initial, like "ягу`ар")

What?
夥辣鱶?驫蓍 鞐艨鉋 焜黴 ?鞐褞辮蔡鱶褌 艪鼕鈞 鉈諤蜊 驪鈞瑁 痳髀諤鴉[/QUOTE]
Well, seems this dictionary is plain wrong, so don't use it. phon_razbor.gif
Try this:
瀰嗔 > 吶鉋? > 夥辣鱶袱 > 昼瑜逶 艪鼕
This type of reduction is clearly audiable is words such as язык, явление. I recorded some pronunciations on Forv. You can just check how it actually sounds in case you cannot consult a native speaker.