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Thread: I hate to beat a dead horse but: Р

  1. #1
    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    Question I hate to beat a dead horse but: Р

    I can roll my r, for no particular reason, quite well. The only word I have trouble with is нравится. I was reading up some more on tongue positions and whatnot and came across this contradicting article: How to trill (roll) your R | therussianblog . It says hard р is just back of the ridge where you make the t and d sound. Got it. But then it says "The soft “r” is a palatalized trill that is produced by touching the tip of your tongue to the back of your front teeth." . Again, for some reason I can do this without trouble, but apparently this is untrue. Many people tell me that soft р is just.. not rolled... Sorry for the twentieth post on rolled r's.

    Also, stress in words. Smaller words. Like что is sometimes said "chtuh". Particularly with потому. How do these work?

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    Властелин Medved's Avatar
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    Also, stress in words. Smaller words. Like что is sometimes said "chtuh". Particularly with потому. How do these work?
    What exactly would you like to know? It's all in all too broad a question you are asking.

    P.S. Что is never "chtuh" at the very least because the first consonant is a SH, not a CH.

    P.P.S. As for the R's just record micro-samples of your soft and hard R's (in words) and we will be able to tell you whether you're doing them right and what you can improve (if any).
    Another month ends. All targets met. All systems working. All customers satisfied. All staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready to fly.

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    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    Supposedly the stress, and subsequently the vowel sounds, in small words like prepositions just "vary". I swear I have constantly heard people say потому, что as potomu shtuh instead of shtoh.

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    Властелин Medved's Avatar
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    I swear I have constantly heard people say потому, что as potomu shtuh instead of shtoh.
    Oh yes, that makes sense. Some words are stressed within a sentence, while some are not. Sometimes a normally stressed syllable becomes unstressed (it's like a stress shift) because of a strong stress in a word running beside it or because of its being a part of a set phrase. That's probably why "патамушта" sounds as one word (just like I don't have any candies has the stress in "any" shifted towards the Y as opposed to normal "any"). It's graphically like a shape of a roof, where the stress is nought at the beginning (anycandies) then it goes up as it comes closer towards the A in the middle (vowels become stronger and clearer) and then it subsides again (vowels gradually reduced, slurred, shifted towards the Uh sound). Same thing with "Патамушта" but the reduction (or the transition from weak to strong syllables and back) is even more tangible than in English.
    Another month ends. All targets met. All systems working. All customers satisfied. All staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready to fly.

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    Почтенный гражданин Serge_spb's Avatar
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    Hey,

    please upload your voice record to https://soundcloud.com, so we can tell what has to be changed.

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    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Властелин Medved's Avatar
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    рыба, театр - отлично
    рядом - получилось радом
    словарь - словар
    нравиться - р нормальная, но "ться" надо читать как "ца"

    Итог: мягкая Р - надо над ней поработать, у вас она звучит так же как и твёрдая.

    произношение словарь: Как произносится словарь, язык:

    You can also use the Я sound as a criterion: when your РЯ is correct you will get the same Я as in "нравиться" while now it's more like an A in рядом/радом. That's because they come in pairs (soft cons + soft vow / hard cons + hard vow) and you basically can't pronounce correctly a soft vowel after a hard consonant. So till you mispronounce your soft R's you will keep getting wrong Я's that will sound more like A's.

    Also: словарь has an unstressed Oh which reads like Ah or Uh, pay attention to the examples in forvo.
    Another month ends. All targets met. All systems working. All customers satisfied. All staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready to fly.

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    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    So my нравиться needed what? More y sound with the я?

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    Почтенный гражданин Serge_spb's Avatar
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    Рыба ok, but sounds little bit like "риба", "Р" should be strong and solid

    Театр - 1. can`t really hear first "T", make it stronger 2. It is not театор. Should be (Т`эатр), with no spaces between "тр".
    "Р" is ok.


    Рядом "Р" is alright, but should be soft (unlike рыба). Otherwise, you get РАДОМ (Like in "Верховная Рада Украины" - Ukr. Parliament)

    Словарь - good, but "р" here should be softer. Instead of your "словар" it should be "словарь".

    Нравится - no matter if it is "Нравится" (me \ he) or "Нравиться" (infinitive) - always pronounce "ЦА" ending. With no separation он "тса"... And in any same word (делаться, слушаться, говорится, видеться etc )

    Check my version https://soundcloud.com/serge_spb/uc2wr3a2ftti

  10. #10
    Властелин Medved's Avatar
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    The word "нравиться" ends in a "ться" which should be pronounced as "ца", not "ться".
    Although the way you pronounce it now shows that you can pronounce a good "Я" so you can use the vowel as a mark that you pronounce your soft R correctly.
    Another month ends. All targets met. All systems working. All customers satisfied. All staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready to fly.

  11. #11
    kib
    kib is offline
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    Сергей, я думаю, ты чересчур строг. Качество записи не идеальное, поэтому трудно услышать нюансы. Я вполне согласен с Medved'ем - рыба и театр произнесены отлично, просто у "р" более сильная вибрация, поэтому есть более усиленное ощущение, что звучит явный гласный между "т" и "р" (вообще он там в любом случае будет).

    xXHoax, отличное произношение! Палатализация почти идеальная, гласные как у русского. Но, как уже отметили ребята, есть над чем работать: с "т" в театре действительно было что-то не так (очевидно, она пропустила концерт), и мягкая "р" не палатализована.

    https://soundcloud.com/user410699933/uw01fznu3c33
    Я сделал небольшую запись, которая, возможно, будет тебе полезна, xXHoax. Сначала произношу "ррррр", затем переход от этого рычания к гласной "и" (не знаю, зачем я это сделал, - просто захотелось :b), затем уже мягкую "р" в слоге "ри" (тянуть ее не получается, поэтому три раза повторил), и наконец отдельно "рь", кажется, так мы ее произносим.
    Я изучаю английский язык и поэтому делаю много ошибок. Но я не прошу Вас исправлять их, Вы можете просто ткнуть меня носом в них, или, точнее, пихнуть их мне в глаза. I'm studying English, and that's why I make a lot of mistakes. But I do not ask you to correct them, you may just stick my nose into them or more exactly stick them into my eyes.
    Всё, что не делается, не всегда делается к лучшему
    Но так же не всегда всё, что не делается, не делается не к худшему. : D

  12. #12
    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    Спасибо Вам!! Да, "т" в театре просто микрофон. Эти записи очень классные и полезные.

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