Re: Hypercorrection in Russian?
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So there is no "chic" pronounciation in Russian at all?
Then how are people able to be snobbish?!
I don't see why they have to...
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I know all Russians say that there are no dialects and that is absolutely mind-boggling to me...
It's not entirely correct, those who live in the East can easily distinguish some Moskovites or people from central regions by their dialect. Besides, some of those who live in the South have very clearly distinguishable accent (somewhat funny at times).
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Honestly, I think dialects/accents will come back, gradually.
No, they won't, just because there weren't any, except those cases I mentioned above.
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It must just be that all those years of socialism erased it, or?
It's absolutely amazing how you, westerners, can blame anything on "all those years of socialism".
Re: Hypercorrection in Russian?
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Originally Posted by Selexin
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It must just be that all those years of socialism erased it, or?
It's absolutely amazing how you, westerners, can blame anything on "all those years of socialism".
Yes "us" westerners because the West consists of a homogenous monolithic mass of people who blame everything on socialism:
typical western dialogue:
"WTF we just got a flat tire"
"I blame socialism"
... anyway the statement was neutral ... is the absence of regional accents something that must be "blamed" on something?
And are you suggesting that before the "years of socialism" instituted compulsory standardised mass education there were absolutely no regional or class accents in the vast Russian Empire?
cheers :)
Re: Hypercorrection in Russian?
Russian linguists in the 19th century named two well-formed dialects in Russian Empire - Ukrainian and Belorussian. Unfortunately, they are different languages now. :mosking:
But there were (and to some extent still are) three more dialect groups on the territory of modern Russia: Nothern, middle-Russian, and Southern. The difference between them was rather superficial. Moreover, elite and educated people spoke mostly in middle-Russian or in French, while "dialect-speakers" were peasants, Cossacks, hunters, etc.
The most noticable differences (apart from some local "slang") were:
а) Nothern - "оканье" and sometimes "еканье" (i.e. unstressed "o"/"e" were not reduced, and were enunciated clearly). Now you'll hardly meet anyone who talks like that.
b) middle-Russian aka modern Russian - "аканье" (i.e. unstressed "o" was pronounced as "a" - according to modern rules). Some people insist that Moscovites exaggerate their "a"s too much ("акают"), but it depends. Some do, but most don't in my opinion.
c) Southern - fricative "Г" and some other little things.This one is still alive and kicking and generally it sounds like a Ukrainian accent (which is not surprising, since Ukraine is close to these parts of Russia).
I'm not sure if you can seriously call it a dialect, based on this little quirks in pronounciation, because vocabulary people use throughout Russia and most former Soviet republicks) is the same, due to media and standard education.
Re: Hypercorrection in Russian?
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...is the absence of regional accents something that must be "blamed" on something?
I'd rephrase the question: "is the PRESENCE of regional accents something that must be blamed on something?"
Because I don't see natural reasons for difference in accents across one and the same country (especially a relatively small one as England), other than intentionally created conditions for that.
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And are you suggesting that before the "years of socialism" instituted compulsory standardised mass education there were absolutely no regional or class accents in the vast Russian Empire?
There certainly were differences, but vernacular rather than dialectal, the kind of difference that exists between educated and uneducated speech. But it can't be called "accent" or "dialect".
In fact, to be honest, there are a lot of distinguisable accents in Russia, because the country comprises a lot of nationalities with their own native tongues, but those accents are not socially induced, so, I think, this aspect doesn't count.
Re: Hypercorrection in Russian?
Interesting discussion, and I have nothing to add. I just wanted to say that, in English, people from Moscow are referred to as Muscovites.
Re: Hypercorrection in Russian?
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Originally Posted by Selexin
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...is the absence of regional accents something that must be "blamed" on something?
I'd rephrase the question: "is the PRESENCE of regional accents something that must be blamed on something?"
Because I don't see natural reasons for difference in accents across one and the same country (especially a relatively small one as England), other than intentionally created conditions for that.
??
I fail to see what you mean.