Thread: accent

Да ну и конечно же "most russians*"
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Originally Posted by Paxan

Да ну и конечно же "most russians*"
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well, i've taken some accent reduction classes, and needed four one-hour individual sessions to even start distinguishing aspirated vs non-aspirated consonants ("p" and "k", specifically). At one point my instructor became frustrated and showed me frequency diagrams on a PC, I could see the difference in the voice onset timing visually but still just couldn't hear it for the life of me. And I have a fairly good ear for accents.

't' is easier because as you yourself noted one is dental and the other is not. I would not go as far as calling them 'totally different' though. And these things are in a whole different ballpark from the more obvious accent features, like the ones I mentioned above.

Я людям ставлю фонетику уже 4 года...если бы я важнейшим ставил гласные, меня уволили бы просто,потому что никто бы не говорил нормально...

Which regions other than the Moscow region is an unstressed 'o' pronounced as 'a'?

I only know that further out from those regions Russian speakers pronounce an unstressed 'o' as just 'o'.

How much will you be understood if you use 'a' instead of 'o' for all of those words in another region?

Originally Posted by волк

Which regions other than the Moscow region is an unstressed 'o' pronounced as 'a'?

I only know that further out from those regions Russian speakers pronounce an unstressed 'o' as just 'o'.

How much will you be understood if you use 'a' instead of 'o' for all of those words in another region?

I beleive all so-called european part of Russia pronounces "o" as "a"...more or less. You will be understood just fine in mentioned regions.

Originally Posted by Paxan

Я людям ставлю фонетику уже 4 года...если бы я важнейшим ставил гласные, меня уволили бы просто,потому что никто бы не говорил нормально...

All of these things need to be fixed. But there is a world of difference between mixing aspirated and nonaspirated consonants and not reducing the vowels. The former will be undistinguishable to the vast majority of the russian-speaking population, while the latter will immediately tell you off as a foreigner with a huge accent. Again, I am not talking about advanced students who are trying to completely reduce their accent here.
Of course if you are working with advanced students who already figured out the more important things (i.e. the vowels), then you have to fix whatever is left.

Originally Posted by волк

Which regions other than the Moscow region is an unstressed 'o' pronounced as 'a'?

I only know that further out from those regions Russian speakers pronounce an unstressed 'o' as just 'o'.

How much will you be understood if you use 'a' instead of 'o' for all of those words in another region?

Unstressed 'o' is not pronounced as 'a' really anywhere except for the Moscow city Rather, both vowels get reduced to a third sound (quite close to s.c. 'schwa', the first vowel in "about").
you'll be understood perfectly though.

Paxan & Laxxy,

maybe you guys could put some examples in the audio lounge? I'm not a linguist, so a lot of things you are saying aren't making a whole lot of sense, but i'd really like to hear some examples. Thanks!

tdk

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by волк

Which regions other than the Moscow region is an unstressed 'o' pronounced as 'a'?

I only know that further out from those regions Russian speakers pronounce an unstressed 'o' as just 'o'.

How much will you be understood if you use 'a' instead of 'o' for all of those words in another region?

Unstressed 'o' is not pronounced as 'a' really anywhere except for the Moscow city Rather, both vowels get reduced to a third sound (quite close to s.c. 'schwa', the first vowel in "about").
you'll be understood perfectly though.

Thought so, thank you.

I would like to hear audio examples, if Paxan and Laxxy have microphones and time...

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

Paxan & Laxxy,

maybe you guys could put some examples in the audio lounge? I'm not a linguist, so a lot of things you are saying aren't making a whole lot of sense, but i'd really like to hear some examples. Thanks!

tdk

Sure..i'll soon get my mic fixed..

Originally Posted by laxxy

The former will be undistinguishable to the vast majority of the russian-speaking population.

Откуда такая информация?

Originally Posted by laxxy

Again, I am not talking about advanced students who are trying to completely reduce their accent here.
Of course if you are working with advanced students who already figured out the more important things (i.e. the vowels), then you have to fix whatever is left

I'm not talking about advanced students as well. I just don't agree with it. I don't think vowels are more important. Я кажется уже предлагал оставить этот спор.

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by волк

Which regions other than the Moscow region is an unstressed 'o' pronounced as 'a'?

I only know that further out from those regions Russian speakers pronounce an unstressed 'o' as just 'o'.

How much will you be understood if you use 'a' instead of 'o' for all of those words in another region?

Unstressed 'o' is not pronounced as 'a' really anywhere except for the Moscow city Rather, both vowels get reduced to a third sound (quite close to s.c. 'schwa', the first vowel in "about").
you'll be understood perfectly though.

Ну тоже спорно канечно.... ну да ладно

Originally Posted by Orpheus

I'm having a similar problem. But first off, I need to know if there's a difference between a ukrainian and russian accent. They sound the same to me.

Yes, there is. How strong it is depends on which part of Ukraine the girl came from and whether you compare it to the official Moscow/Petersburg sort of Russian or something else Assuming she is from Southern or Eastern Ukraine, she is probably speaking softer than regular Russian, her "г" might be exaggerated and too soft... There are other differences too, which I can't really explain, but I am pretty sure I would hear it immeditely... However, assuming she doesn't have a really _strong_ Ukranian accent, you shouldn't be worried much about copying her

Originally Posted by Paxan

Originally Posted by laxxy

The former will be undistinguishable to the vast majority of the russian-speaking population.

Откуда такая информация?

well, it was completely undistinguishable to me in a laboratory setting. A real world conversation is not a laboratory setting, so it would be way harder.

Я кажется уже предлагал оставить этот спор.

ok fine.

Originally Posted by MikeM

Originally Posted by Orpheus

I'm having a similar problem. But first off, I need to know if there's a difference between a ukrainian and russian accent. They sound the same to me.

Yes, there is. How strong it is depends on which part of Ukraine the girl came from and whether you compare it to the official Moscow/Petersburg sort of Russian or something else Assuming she is from Southern or Eastern Ukraine, she is probably speaking softer than regular Russian, her "г" might be exaggerated and too soft... There are other differences too, which I can't really explain, but I am pretty sure I would hear it immeditely... However, assuming she doesn't have a really _strong_ Ukranian accent, you shouldn't be worried much about copying her

Ukrainian accent in Russian or in English?
Ukrainian accent in Russian is readily distinguishable (and vice versa), although there are varying degrees of that.
Technically it is often not an accent imo, as a lot of people in Ukraine still speak Russian as their first language, but our pronunciation is somewhat different from the standard Russian.

I am not sure if the Russian accent in _English_ is much different from a Ukrainian one though, although some common mistakes that Russians make should not be typical for Ukrainians (e.g. devoicing final consonants).

Originally Posted by laxxy

Ukrainian accent in Russian or in English?

I was talking about Ukranian "accent" in Russian...