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Thread: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    I have started trying to expand my vocabulary.... Up until recently I have just been trying to get used to Russian and its' grammar...
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    Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Just a quick question about these words:

    1) So with such words, the singular is is -ие and the plural is -ия, right? Is this quite common, what are some other examples?

    2) I cannot really hear a difference; when people pronounce it, it sounds the same in both the singular and plural.... I hear the "ie" ending for both.. Do you agree or am I not hearing it right?

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    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna
    I have started trying to expand my vocabulary.... Up until recently I have just been trying to get used to Russian and its' grammar...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Just a quick question about these words:

    1) So with such words, the singular is is -ие and the plural is -ия, right? Is this quite common, what are some other examples?
    Yes, there many words of this type (neutral gender, -ие ending for singular, -ия for plural):

    восстание, путешествие, приключение, окончание, кровопролитие, расставание, изваяние, сооружение etc.

    As you can see almost all of them mean action or a result of action.

    2) I cannot really hear a difference; when people pronounce it, it sounds the same in both the singular and plural.... I hear the "ie" ending for both.. Do you agree or am I not hearing it right?
    Yes, in quick colloquial speech the difference almost not heard for untrained ear. You should guess from context then.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  3. #3
    Hanna
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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Thanks for the explanation...
    For some reason I hardly know any neutral words... that's why I hadn't thought about it yet.

    гостиная - гостиные
    (almost the other way around, lol!! But it's a feminine word, I think!)

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    it's 1st declension pattern

    neuter nouns ending in -е or -ё in sing. nominative to -я in plural

    море - моря
    поле - поля
    собрание - собрания
    здание - здания
    ружьё - ружья
    If I was kiddin' you, I'd be wearin' a fez and no pants. (Lennie Briscoe)

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna
    Thanks for the explanation...
    For some reason I hardly know any neutral words... that's why I hadn't thought about it yet.

    гостиная - гостиные
    (almost the other way around, lol!! But it's a feminine word, I think!)
    гостиная is a 2nd declension noun
    If I was kiddin' you, I'd be wearin' a fez and no pants. (Lennie Briscoe)

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna
    I have started trying to expand my vocabulary.... Up until recently I have just been trying to get used to Russian and its' grammar...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Just a quick question about these words:

    1) So with such words, the singular is is -ие and the plural is -ия, right? Is this quite common, what are some other examples?

    2) I cannot really hear a difference; when people pronounce it, it sounds the same in both the singular and plural.... I hear the "ie" ending for both.. Do you agree or am I not hearing it right?
    Hanna, обращай внимание на окончания слов, которые относятся к словам ощущение/ощущения/событие/события и др..

    -ие - окончание единственного числа;
    -ия - окончание множественного числа;

    Если к слову ощущен(-ие/ия?) относится слово, которое имеет окончание единственного числа, то слово ощущен(-ие/ия?) тоже имеет окончание единственного числа, т.е. ощущение.
    Если к слову ощущен(-ие/ия?) относится слово, которое имеет окончание множественного числа, то слово ощущен(-ие/ия?) тоже имеет окончание множественного числа, т.е. ощущения.

    Look:
    У меня странное ощущен(-ие/ия?), что я где-то это уже видел. (странное - singular, следовательно, ощущение)
    Во время массажа люди испытывают приятные ощущен(-ие/ия?). (приятные - plural, следовательно, ощущения)
    Событ(-ие/ия?), которые вчера потрясли весь мир, сегодня уже никого не трясут. (которые, потрясли, трясут - plural, следовательно, события)
    Это необычное событ(-ие/ия?) произошло с самым обычным человеком. (необычное, произошло - singular, следовательно, событие )
    Thanks for correcting me.

  7. #7
    Hanna
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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Thanks a lot Oldboy!
    I am trying to translate into English what you said, it seems like a really good explanatino. But I am getting stuck on some confusing words that I can't quite understand the meaning of, in their context. More tomorrow!
    Hanna


    PS - that's what makes Russian so hard for us who speak Western European langauges.. We are used to being able to guess or figure out what things mean in other languages even when we don't know all words in a sentence. In Russian, that is impossible - you have to know ALL words to understand, and even then, it may not be possible...

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Oldboy
    Я бы сказал, что события, которые вчера потрясли весь мир, сегодня уже никого не потрясают/потрясут/потрясли бы. Трясти и потрясать всё же разные вещи, имхо.
    Hanna
    You don't have to overtrain your ear to hear the difference between -ние and -ния.
    Actually they can be recognized via the ending of the corresponding adjective or numeral.
    For example, другое ощущение, другие ощущения.
    Also not many nouns ending in -ие have the plural form, simply because they may mean non-countable things like states, emotions, etc. For example, потребление, освещение, открытие etc. Basically, because they are nouns derived from verbs and have functions similar to gerund in English.

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    Почтенный гражданин oldboy's Avatar
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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by Капитан
    Oldboy
    Я бы сказал, что события, которые вчера потрясли весь мир, сегодня уже никого не потрясают/потрясут/потрясли бы. Трясти и потрясать всё же разные вещи, имхо.
    ...а так смешнее.
    Thanks for correcting me.

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by oldboy
    Quote Originally Posted by Капитан
    Oldboy
    Я бы сказал, что события, которые вчера потрясли весь мир, сегодня уже никого не потрясают/потрясут/потрясли бы. Трясти и потрясать всё же разные вещи, имхо.
    ...а так смешнее.
    non-advanced and sometimes advanced learners can't tell the difference, though
    If I was kiddin' you, I'd be wearin' a fez and no pants. (Lennie Briscoe)

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna
    Thanks for the explanation...
    For some reason I hardly know any neutral words... that's why I hadn't thought about it yet.

    гостиная - гостиные
    (almost the other way around, lol!! But it's a feminine word, I think!)
    I'll write the most difficult example with russian neutral words. This is a fun, but my foreign friend was shocked when he heard it.
    So,

    яйцо - neutral. for example, одно яцо. One egg.
    два яйца, plural, two eggs.
    But! Suddenly!
    пять ЯИЦ, five eggs.
    and, finally, plural form of russian 'eggs' is - яйцА.

    After these examples my friend became very astonished and told "It's impossible for learning! How! How can I understand it?!".
    Thank you for correcting me! Please, don't hesitate

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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by ovel

    I'll write the most difficult example with russian neutral words. This is a fun, but my foreign friend was shocked when he heard it.
    So,

    яйцо - neutral. for example, одно яцо. One egg.
    два яйца, plural, two eggs.
    But! Suddenly!
    пять ЯИЦ, five eggs.
    and, finally, plural form of russian 'eggs' is - яйцА.

    This is not the most difficult example really; it's just that Russian, just as some other languages, uses genitive singular with numerals 2-4 and genitive plural with numerals 5 and above (in nominative/accusative). Nothing scary there. (And most definitely not unique to the word in your example)
    If I was kiddin' you, I'd be wearin' a fez and no pants. (Lennie Briscoe)

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    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    Quote Originally Posted by quartz
    Nothing scary there.
    Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

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    Почтенный гражданин Misha Tal's Avatar
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    Re: Ощущение - ощущения ---- cобытие -события

    This is what makes Russian grammar terribly difficult. You learn that feminine words end in "а" and you think you got feminine nouns down. And then all of a sudden you come across the word "врага". You can only find "враг" in your dictionary. Then you find out that "врага" is not a female "враг", rather it is the genitive of the same "враг"!
    Please be assured that it's going to take you quite a while to get used to this thingy. You not only have to learn new words, but also have to learn their gender and all their six cases. Thus, Russian is six times harder than English to learn.
    Took me a year or so. Happy language learning!
    "If in the end, Misha, you are destined to lose this game, there is no need for the reason to be cowardice!"

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