Thread: Что произойдет в восточной Украине? (Eastern Ukraine?)

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I AM the one from Eastern Ukraine. So, please don't say "they" when speaking to me, say "you".

I was referring to Eisenherz post, not yours in specific, and used the words "you" in a generic way. I am perfectly aware that you are from there.

Like I said to you before, I totally respect your viewpoint and understand that probably at least half of the people there feel like you do. Nevertheless there are clearly a lot of people who are prepared to take big risks and go to a lot of trouble to for different views than yours.

Like I said to you before, I totally respect your viewpoint and understand that probably at least half of the people there feel like you do. Nevertheless there are clearly a lot of people who are prepared to take big risks and go to a lot of trouble to for different views than yours.

Witness: I saw the tiger from jungle entered the house, killed the man and partly devoured his body.
Attorney: I totally respect your viewpoint and understand that probably at least half of the house inhabitants there feel like you do. Nevertheless there is clearly the cat in the house who is prepared to take big risks and go to a lot of trouble to for different views than yours.

I witness that the guys that made actual armed violence are not from here. They look different, act different, speak different, they don't know local customs and geography. They don't discuss anything, they just make orders to their followers. When they are asked about their goals they reply mostly: "I am not the one in charge of answering". They don't make deals with locals, they demand complete obediance. They don't let local press (from the town) in the captured buildings, only Russian press. They say: "we don't need Khokhols (Ukrainians) here."

Their followers are happy to follow orders. They are completely sure to follow Russian militaries. There are people for "federalization" and unhappy with Kiev but they mostly sit at home as they are sane and responsible. Those who obey orders of greenies want to join Russia. If you ask them about "Donetsk republic" or "federalization" they say: "oh, yeah, Donetsk republic, federalization, yeah, definitely - that is what we are for". And put on Russian flags. They are not much but they are who on the streets and who sit in the official buildings cleared by armed squads. I believe they are deceived.

We have the situation here that "everybody knows" that Russians lead the protesters and ready to obey. They know it from Russain TV channels that are used to be popular here. The channels broadcast all the way about helping Russian brothers oppressed, tortured and killed in Ukraine. And that is the engine of all the people on the streets. The superpower express its intentions clearly. All Russian TV channels call people on the streets "our heroes", their opponents "fascists", "junta" etc. - no other ways of treatment. The reports are ridiculous with hundreds of killed at each event, and many obvious fakes.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I witness that the guys that made actual armed violence are not from here. They look different, act different, speak different, they don't know local customs and geography. They don't discuss anything, they just make orders to their followers. When they are asked about their goals they reply mostly: "I am not the one in charge of answering". They don't make deals with locals, they demand complete obediance. They don't let local press (from the town) in the captured buildings, only Russian press. They say: "we don't need Khokhols (Ukrainians) here."

That is incredibly suspicious. If you certain the people are not locals, then I change my mind. I was under the impression it was locals. Also I didn't think there was any noticeable difference between accents, looks and what not.... Of course, on further thought, there are always "finer" shades that local people can tell; if somebody is an outsider or not local.

The reason I didn't believe Russia was guilty was not because I think Russia is some saint... More like -- I simply didn't see any useful gain for Russia in creating chaos in Eastern Ukraine. Unless Russia is secretly planning annexation it's pretty awful to deliberately stir things up in a neighbouring country.

gRomoZeka said something that would also support you on this, even if she has a different view on Crimea than you.

I still don't get what Russia would want with this area, and against the will of the majority who live there. It makes no sense. Maybe I am missing something though, and Russia does in fact want the area, or it has some other agenda that it is pursuing. Apart from anything else, it would be incredibly bad for Russia's international image to go into Ukraine proper. I think educated people know that Crimea was a special case and that the current furore will eventually settle down. But Ukraine proper is a different thing altogether.

Originally Posted by Hanna

gRomoZeka said something that would also support you on this, even if she has a different view on Crimea than you.

What exactly?

BTW, read this article from BBC. There are a few embedded video reports, that show "local villagers" who are pretty active and opinionated on their own, without being browbeaten into it by some mythical Russian spies.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Military column 'seized' in Kramatorsk