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About LinkBacksThat's Right - Latvia should end this segregation and close ALL russian schools immediatelyСССР не давал прав на сегрегацию
That's Right - Latvia should end this segregation and close ALL russian schools immediatelyСССР не давал прав на сегрегацию
Серп и молот - смерть и голод!
Maybe instead, the EU should tell Latvia & co to follow the rules on how to treat minorities, or no more development funds!Originally Posted by nulle
That's Right - Latvia should end this segregation and close ALL russian schools immediately
Btw - all that money being spent on developing the Baltic states is nothing less than (oh horror!) Socialism!
Taking money from the richer parts and redistributing to parts that need it right now.
Personally I think it is good, but I would like to see the countries that benefit from this EU principle also adhering to directives such as provisioning for language minorities and granting citizenship to those born in the country! As all other civilised European countries do.
When the Baltics don't do this, then I don't want my tax money spent on fixing up their churches and roads and what-have-you. If you are going to reap the econonomic benefits, you should respect the social principles.
And the whole point for christ's sake is to NOT bang on about who's done what wrong! All European countries have behaved like pigs at one point or another. If that was a reason for mistreating people, then we might as well nuke the whole continent right away.
If the UK, Spain, Finland, France, Italy and many more can manage to treat language minorities ok then why can't the Baltics? How can it be OK to discriminate a small child or a pensioner because you think the Stalin took the wrong decision in the 1940s, or because you have a low opinion about Putin? I think it's pathetic and very un-European.
Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!
Yes Basil77, but look a bit further -
File:Ethnic groups in Latvia.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And you will see that number of ethnic Latvians was +/- constant all the time (but is slowly decreasing now).
Ethnic Russian population on the other hand decreased a lot faster.
And rapid increase of Russian population in Soviet times was because Moscow sent immigrants here - and their inflow stopped after USSR dissolution.
And as you can see a lot of them went back to USSR after that.
The same with Estonia - ethnic Estonian population did not change much - Russian population decreased there.
And the same with Lithuania.
In all Baltic states, after occupation ended, percentage of "main" ethnicity grew, but Russian population decreased.
And we view that as a good sign.
Latvian population decreased in 90s because it was a period of crisis and uncertainty and people chose to have less children.
Russia's population chart is similar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Po..._of_Russia.PNG
Серп и молот - смерть и голод!
Maybe you would care to explain why Russian population chart is similar? Who did send immigrants to Russia during the Soviet times?
Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!
It‘s because it was strictly forbidden to leave USSR and it’s simply natural that the number of people increased there because Russians were used to have BIG familiesBy the way, first of all, try to find out if people were allowed to leave USSR during soviet times and then you won’t have such silly questions…
Look at Greece - their salaries are higher - and look where such policies got them.Prices are almost the same as elsewhere in the EU but peoples salaries are much lower.
Actually so-called crisis was a good thing - most of population learned a lesson that you cannot live off borrowed money forever - Greeks learned this in a harder way now.
I, for example, live a lot better than during pre-crisis or so-called "fat years" - when credits were easy accessible, real-estate bubble was getting bigger and salaries also were higher.
People at that time "lost their minds" over easy accessible cash
It's no surprise that such situation did not last long - real estate bubble burst - prices fell, most of construction companies went out of business and banks took these BMWs back
So you see that this fall of GDP was not really a fall, but more like return to normal situation.
Now GDP is growing again, but more slowly, and this time there is no bubble.
Серп и молот - смерть и голод!
On this, I agree with you. People and countries should live within their means. I don't know exactly what people's lifestyle is in Latvia but they are not destitute. On the other hand, I see no Ipads, BMW fourwheel drives or expensive designer clothes. That is luxury consumption though, and frankly I am not so sure anyone actually needs any of that.
In Liepaja, I can see that there is not a lot of fancy restaurants (or restaurants at all) and many houses are quite run down. People are dressed ok though, they have cars and things like mobile phones and computers. It's about the same as what I saw in Belarus, only there is (in my opinion) more attractive consumer goods on sale in Latvia. That said, I bought some fantastic value specs and stylish linen clothes in Belarus. And they DO have designer shops etc in Minsk. For example MaxMara one of my favourite designers. I can't make up my mind about what I think is better.
On Belarus being a dictatorship:
1) All the signs are that Lukashenko did actually win the elections although it's true that the state more or less controls national media - and this probably worked in Lukashenko's favour - same principle as in Russia. But since they have free internet access and can get TV from other countries, those who are interested can easily get the other side of the story. Perhaps there was some cheating on the counting, perhaps not. But it seems the majority wants the stability of keeping Lukashenko for the time being.
2) I met plenty of people in BY who said that on the whole, Lukashenko was OK and doing the best he could. I met two women who were quite passionate Lukashenko supporters, not to mention a guy I met at the sanatorium "Belaya Rus". Also, I believe that it' a sign of "better the devil you know" - they are scared of a chaotic revolution and the misery associated with dismantling socialism. I totally respect what they have done. If you went there you'd be surprised. It actually looks better than Latvia, although less good shops. However, I think that Belarus should allow full supervision of the elections by EU and Russian observers next time.
Yes, there are a few people clapping hands and protesting etc. Basically mostly in Minsk, people who are West oriented, hate the government for some specific reason, or would gain financially from a change in the situation. I respect their position and I understand where they are coming from. But I don't actually think they are the majority. Not YET, I should say, perhaps, but who knows?
But what is not reported is that they have a massive pro-government youth movement (voluntary) that is really enthusiastic, most people are a state employees, so they hardly want to bring down the state having seen how that worked out in Russia. ETC!
Being in Latvia has also opened up my eyes for what Swedish (Scandinavian) companies have done in the Baltics and the massive influence in general. I wonder what Baltic people think about it. To some degree the big invasion of Scandi companies must have stifled LOCAL initiatives. Not to mention that the profits leave the country.
The whole country very much has a superficial likeness to Scandinavia. The Narvessen shops and similar, the Swedish banks, and little touches like plenty of cycle lanes everywhere. I LOVE that Latvia is using so much wind power. Big thumbs up for that. But Scandinavians would never treat the Russian speakers the way the Baltics do - not in a million years.
There is a Swedish company that I particularly dislike that seems to have really infiltrated both Belarus and Latvia: Oriflame. I saw lots of Oriflame (makeup) vendors even in Belarus. This company is a scam - they trick people into buying their products to resell and hence make money. But in reality nobody makes money that way, only Oriflame themselves. Most people in Sweden already know that, so I suppose they needed to find some other area to scam.
If you hear of anyone thinking to start using that, talk them out of it!
@Basil77 - I really enjoyed that country comparison site! Thanks for posting the link.
I respect you sticking up for Russia in this thread! Personally I think the Balts need to move on, regardless of who was right or wrong in the 1940s and 1990s (it's complex and there are basically two sides of the story and perhaps no completely objective truth).
Mimino is one of my fave old Russian films. I think it has a rather deep message, really and it's funny with its bizarre serendipity.
What do you think of those arrests? That looked like people didn't have rights to walk wherever they wished. Everyone who was there was at the risk of being attacked and arrested. You'd been so lucky to leave that country before the attacks started taking place...Yes, there are a few people clapping hands and protesting etc. Basically mostly in Minsk, people who are West oriented, hate the government for some specific reason, or would gain financially from a change in the situation. I respect their position and I understand where they are coming from. But I don't actually think they are the majority. Not YET, I should say, perhaps, but who knows?
Yeah - Hanna - would you like that in Sweden police arrest you simply for going down the street?
You should have visited Latvia in 2006 or 2007On the other hand, I see no Ipads, BMW fourwheel drives or expensive designer clothes.poor oppressed russian speakersBut Scandinavians would never treat the Russian speakers the way the Baltics do - not in a million years.
‪9. maija konfrontācija Uzvaras laukumā, Rīgā‬‏ - YouTube
If they are singing that Russia is their fatherland - why they are still here?
My post was about - why USSR manufacturing died out in 90s.It has nothing to do with the past, the USSR. It has to do with right now.
I completely agree with you that 2009 crisis was not USSR fault.
But now United States have an insane national debt that is getting bigger by 20k $/secondThe powerful economies of the world like in the US, and now in China, do not, and did not take aid loans, and do not go into austerity programs
http://usdebtclock.org/
Sooner or later they will need to do something about it...
Серп и молот - смерть и голод!
No, I was there while it was happening, only, I noticed NOTHING.
And certainly, the police paid no attention whatsoever to me, even when I (absentmindedly) crossed the street when the red man was showing. That is actually illegal in Belarus. But they didn't do anything. I passed by the main square (Independence) when some people had congregated there. The police were there, but they weren't doing anything.
I am sure that there ARE people that are being poorly treated in Belarus. But it's not directed at people who don't stick their neck out.
If you want a comparison, consider the university fee riots in London, where lots of people were arrested and beaten up, and anti-globalisation protests were a man was killed by police last year and many arrested. There is not A LOT of difference.
What irritates me the most is that you pretend to be some kind of Belarus expert when in reality you haven't been there and had completely incorrect information when you first commented on it. If a Belarussian comments I would respect his views whatever they were. But you are just mindlessly repeating what you have read on Radio Liberty or whatever...
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