Thread: Политические дискуссии на разные темы (оф-топик от темы "The crisis in Syria")

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Я понимаю на кого вы намекаете =) Хех. Но верх глупости - это когда чья-то страна угнетает СВОИХ людей внутри, а некоторые из них (людей) считают, что так и должно быть.

Нет, нет, Эрик. На самом деле, я не намекаю на никого. Такие люди везде! Я каждый день говорю (и спорю) с ними на Фейсбуке, а не только тут.

John McCain To Respond To Putin's Op Ed - Business Insider

While I applaud the editors of Pravda for their openness in giving Mr. McCain a platform to speak to the Russian people, I just want to let you all know in advance that this right-wing, russophobic warmonger does NOT speak for me!

Originally Posted by Deborski

John McCain To Respond To Putin's Op Ed - Business Insider

While I applaud the editors of Pravda for their openness in giving Mr. McCain a platform to speak to the Russian people, I just want to let you all know in advance that this right-wing, russophobic warmonger does NOT speak for me!

I just about recognised his face, but didn't know who he was until recently.
Can hardly believe that people like this are for real.

He seems to be talking about an English speaking edition of Pravda. Lord knows who reads that.... Maybe it'll be translated and published in the regular Russian speaking version, or maybe not.

Either way; I think most sensible people in Russia recognise twisted rhetoric and propaganda when they hear it, so they'll probably pay no attention to McCain's war mongering rant in "Pravda".

My understanding is that Pravda has lowered its standard's significantly and is a tabloid nowadays. But it's probably the only Russian paper that's vaguely familiar in the USA so maybe it makes sense from an American perspective to choose this paper. In reality there must be at least 10 more suitable papers for a political debate.

Besides, aren't Americans supposed to believe that Russia has no freedom of the press and Putin is a dictator? Interesting that McCain can then publish his article. Perhaps they should keep this in mind next time they gear up for a "Russia is a dictatorship" story.

The USA is really beginning to trip itself up lately, and the level of dimness required to still believe it's the leader of the "free world" is increasing every day.

Most Americans seem more aware of RT than of Pravda. Pravda has too much connection to Soviet times, in the minds of Americans, for them to take it credibly. I share stories from RT, RIA Novosti, Russia Beyond the Headlines and a variety of other Russian media which have English editions. Only the RT articles get much of a response. As for myself, I read Russian-language news as well to get a handle on what is really going on.

Frankly, I am tired of ALL the dick measuring. I have not seen Russian/American animosity this high since the Cold War. I am hearing some of the most ignorant, russophobic nonsense I have heard since the 80's when people flocked to movies like Red Dawn. It's disgusting and believe me, I have given a lot of people a piece of my mind. I am also hearing a lot of hatred of America and nasty stereotypes about my own people and I'm fed up with that too. In my opinion screw ALL the haters.

Everyone needs to calm the hell down, start reasoning objectively, stop pointing fingers, and start trying to work out some peaceful and diplomatic solutions which do not involve igniting a global conflict and destroying life on this planet as we know it.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Most Americans seem more aware of RT than of Pravda. Pravda has too much connection to Soviet Times, in the minds of Americans, for them to take it credibly. I share stories from RT, RIA Novosti, Russia Beyond the Headlines and a variety of other Russian media which have English editions. Only the RT articles get much of a response. As for myself, I read Russian-language news as well to get a handle on what is really going on.

Frankly, I am tired of ALL the dick measuring. I have not seen Russian/American animosity this high since the Cold War. I am hearing some of the most ignorant, russophobic nonsense I have heard since the 80's when people flocked to movies like Red Dawn. It's disgusting and believe me, I have given a lot of people a piece of my mind. I am also hearing a lot of hatred of America and nasty stereotypes about my own people and I'm fed up with that too. In my opinion screw ALL the haters.

Everyone needs to calm the hell down, start reasoning objectively, stop pointing fingers, and start trying to work out some peaceful and diplomatic solutions which do not involve igniting a global conflict and destroying life on this planet as we know it.

Deb, don't you think that back then in the 1970s-1980s movies like Red Dawn would be justified? Maybe because of being depicted that way the Russian people found courage to overthrow their zombifiers and stop being zombies? I heard lots of people truly believed they were living in the best country in the world while getting paid like $50 a month and being unable to get certain food, clothing, etc. even for that money. Luckily, they eventually saw WHAT they had been worshiping; you can see what they would look like if they hadn't if you just look at North Korea. I don't think it's ok to have such zombie nations these days, do you? Summing it up, the Cold War as it was before the "perestroika" was kind of good in the sense that it helped the evil empire face its end sooner so people could get free.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Deb, don't you think that back then in the 1970s-1980s movies like Red Dawn would be justified? Maybe because of being depicted that way the Russian people found courage to overthrow their zombifiers and stop being zombies? I heard lots of people truly believed they were living in the best country in the world while getting paid like $50 a month and being unable to get certain food, clothing, etc. even for that money. Luckily, they eventually saw WHAT they had been worshiping; you can see what they would look like if they hadn't if you just look at North Korea. I don't think it's ok to have such zombie nations these days, do you? Summing it up, the Cold War as it was before the "perestroika" was kind of good in the sense that it helped the evil empire face its end sooner so people could get free.

No Eric, I do not think that portraying Russians as baby-killers and thugs was ever justified.

But, if you think that stereotypes are a great way to "unzombify" people, then maybe there should be some Russian movies showing the little children dying from our drone attacks, in order to help us zombie Americans who think we live in the greatest country on earth while we can barely scrape together enough for our mortgages (if we were not already foreclosed on), cut coupons to save a few dollars at the grocery store, and go bankrupt paying doctors' bills.

The Soviet Union was not paradise, but the US has FAR too many problems of its own to be pointing fingers now.

Our police state is beyond even Stalin's wildest dreams, our country is overflowing with guns, our homicide rate is skyrocketing, we shovel the homeless out of cities because we are embarrassed at the sight of them, and our prisons, run for profit, now have more people incarcerated than during the peak of the Stalin era.

Maybe we should see more movies about that. Because America has become EXCEPTIONAL at creating a police state.

Our police state is beyond even Stalin's wildest dreams, our country is overflowing with guns, our homicide rate is skyrocketing, we shovel the homeless out of cities because we are embarrassed at the sight of them, and our prisons, run for profit, now have more people incarcerated than during the peak of the Stalin era.

It's all sad (all of it except for people getting guns, which I think is good, partially because of the homicide rates and things like that); but people ain't zombies! They talk about it, they try coming up with suggestions on how to fix it, etc. That's what you're doing right now! If you were living in the Soviet Union, you would be saying, "it's a lie, we're in paradise!";

Originally Posted by Eric C.

It's all sad (all of it except for people getting guns, which I think is good, partially because of the homicide rates and things like that); but people ain't zombies! They talk about it, they try coming up with suggestions on how to fix it, etc. That's what you're doing right now! If you were living in the Soviet Union, you would be saying, "it's a lie, we're in paradise!";

Oh please. Not everyone in the USSR were zombies by any measure. Just because their opinions were not reflected in state-run news does not mean they didn't have opinions or voice those opinions at times. They knew the government was not telling them the truth. Now how many Americans can say that? Every country has its mob of blind patriots - including and maybe even especially America. And every country has its dissenters, who in my way of thinking are the most truly patriotic of all, because they are not afraid to speak out about the evils which destroy their countries from the inside.

A little background on US Senator John McCain, who plans to write an open letter in Pravda to the people of Russia...

Map: All the Countries John McCain Has Wanted to Attack | Mother Jones



This article sums up McCain's many, many occasions of warmongering over the past two decades. If McCain had his way, we'd have had at least 2 more Cold Wars by now and we'd be well on our way to World War Four or Five....

Even before he was caught playing poker on his iPhone at a Senate hearing on Wednesday, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) had already sent a message: Anything less than an extensive aerial assault on the Syrian regime by American forces would be an unacceptable approach to the conflict in the Middle East. This was hardly surprising. Over the last two decades, McCain has rarely missed an opportunity to call for the escalation of an international conflict. Since the mid-1990s, he's pushed for regime change in more than a half-dozen countries—occasionally with disastrous consequences.

Click on the link to find out what John McCain had to say about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Russia, Kosovo, Bosnia and all the others... maybe even your own!

Click on the link to find out what John McCain had to say about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Russia, Kosovo, Bosnia and all the others... maybe even your own!

Just to be fair, the first 4 countries on the list are/used to be real hell on earth, and something has/had to be done about them. Maybe not necessarily war action, but something, obviously.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Maybe not necessarily war action, but something, obviously.

I agree. But McCain's answer would be WAR. Because that is always his answer.

The US: World's Policeman or Schoolyard Bully?



American political commentator and comedian Bill Maher weighs in on the Syrian crisis with a scathing attack on America's policy of global aggression:

New rule: 12 years after 9/11, and amidst yet another debate on whether to bomb yet another Muslim country, America must stop asking the question, "Why do they hate us?" Forget the debate on Syria, we need a debate on why we're always debating whether to bomb someone. Because we're starting to look not so much like the world's policeman, but more like George Zimmerman: itching to use force and then pretending it's because we had no choice.

Now, I'm against chemical weapons, and I don't care who knows it. And there's no doubt a guy like Bashar al-Assad deserves to get blown up: using toxic chemicals on unsuspecting civilians is purely and profoundly evil.

But enough about Monsanto. When it comes to Syria, I do understand the appeal of putting the world on notice that if you use poison gas, the United States of America will personally fuck you up: we will seek out the counsel and support of the entire family of nations, and then, no matter what they say, we will go ahead and fuck you up.

But however valid that argument may be, it is, I believe, outweighed by the fact that we have to stop bombing Muslim countries if we ever want to feel safe from terrorism in our own. The Chemical Weapons Convention is important, but to the jihadi in the street, it just looks like we're always looking for a new reason to bomb them. We keep calling this part of the world a tinderbox - and we keep lighting fires there.

Even worse, bombing seems to be our answer for everything.

Since 1945, when Jesus granted America air superiority, we've bombed Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Serbia, Somalia, Bosnia, the Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya and Yemen. And Yemen only because the tenth one was free.

How did we inherit this moral obligation to bring justice to the world via death from above? Are we Zeus? It doesn't make any sense. Our schools are crumbling, and we want to teach everyone else a lesson?

And look, like I said, I'm no fan of Assad. And I say that openly: I don't care if it costs me jobs in Hollywood. I think he's the worst kind of sociopath - the kind who commits unspeakable acts, but who looks like a menswear salesman.

I'm just pointing out that in recent years, our foreign policy debates look like the Facebook page of a loner who shot up a McDonald's. We're the only country in the world that muses out loud about who we might bomb next:

Iran, yeah we might bomb you ... thinking about it ... maybe, depends on my mood.

We did this with Iraq after 9/11, even though they had nothing to do with 9/11. We do it with Iran every day. And now, it's Syria's turn. We're like a schoolyard bully who's got every kid in the class nervous they're going to be next - and I don't know if anyone should have that power. Can you imagine going to work and sitting at the lunch table in front of ten people and saying:

Hey, you think we should ... kill Bob? It would send a message to Steve.

Who acts like this?

People in other countries don't talk like this. Probably because, if they did, we'd bomb them. Is there no self-awareness about how arrogant it looks to sit around politely pondering who needs a good bombing?

And,we're the only nation - as we have seen in this Syrian fiasco - who threatens to drop bombs on you while telling you we don't want to get involved!

We're just bombing, please, don't get up - no boots on the ground, just a little light bombing, we'll be out of your hair in a week.

I remember being on the Howard Stern show 12 years ago this week, right after 9/11, and Howard said that, in retaliation for 9/11, America should bomb a Muslim country, any Muslim country, it didn't matter which one. And yet somehow, I was the one on trial for talking crazy.

And I thought to myself, really? Bomb any Muslim country - that's the policy? Get a map of the Middle East and just throw a dart at it?

Well, apparently George W Bush was listening that day because that's exactly what we did.

Да уж, США - главарь банды международного масштаба, и уже давно. И другие главари даже рядом не стояли. А у бандитов свои понятия о порядке, справедливости и методах их достижения. И они всегда уверены, что если не карать кого-нибудь каждый день, то это будет проявлением слабости, мягкотелости...
Игорь Иртеньев | Мягкий характер

Originally Posted by Deborski

A little background on US Senator John McCain, who plans to write an open letter in Pravda to the people of Russia...

Map: All the Countries John McCain Has Wanted to Attack | Mother Jones



This article sums up McCain's many, many occasions of warmongering over the past two decades. If McCain had his way, we'd have had at least 2 more Cold Wars by now and we'd be well on our way to World War Four or Five....



Click on the link to find out what John McCain had to say about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Russia, Kosovo, Bosnia and all the others... maybe even your own!

Yeah, this is what I've been on about in the Politics forum. There was a talk about this back in the 1990s when a US general essentially listed all the countries and regimes the US was going to take down.
This is on video and anyone can view it on Youtube. (guess it was before they got savvy about new media..)

And it's followed the script almost precisely. Some people believe in Jewish conspiracies and what not. This is a conspiracy that is essentially right there, and the world's super power is working to it diligently for a decade and a half. They are easily 80% through the list.

The whole world is criss-crossed by a network of American military, air and naval bases. All in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". It's double speak if ever there was any. Ask the Iraqis how happy they are with their freedom, or the Libyans. That was never what it was about. They don't care at all about the Syrians either, and besides, they didn't even have it that bad. No price in destruction, refugee crisis, chaos and human suffering seems to be too high.

China can't/won't stop the USA as long as it doesn't actually target China itself. Russia can't and doesn't want to do anything since it almost ruined itself trying to keep the USA in check, and eventually lost the game anyway. It's a real tragedy.

When other bully states are discussed in a historical light you can usually find some nice things to say about it; like the Romans built roads and kept the peace; the Greek spread the love for knowledge and critical thinking; the Moslem empire in the middle age valued science and maths.

But the USA.... What will its empire be famous for? I don't think hamburgers and expensive lattes will go down to posterity! Or perhaps it'll just go down as the short-lived empire that spread the values of junk culture, depleted morals, radical capitalism and the pursuit of money and corporate profits at any cost.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Да уж, США - главарь банды международного масштаба, и уже давно. И другие главари даже рядом не стояли. А у бандитов свои понятия о порядке, справедливости и методах их достижения. И они всегда уверены, что если не карать кого-нибудь каждый день, то это будет проявлением слабости, мягкотелости...
Игорь Иртеньев | Мягкий характер

Совсем не смешная шутка :/

It's funny by the way how certain people forget to mention companies like IBM, Microsoft or Apple, when it comes to the things the U.S. might be known for.

But the USA.... What will its empire be famous for? I don't think hamburgers and expensive lattes will go down to posterity! Or perhaps it'll just go down as the short-lived empire that spread the values of junk culture, depleted morals, radical capitalism and the pursuit of money and corporate profits at any cost.

I really can’t comprehend the core nature of your perpetual complains about the USA, given your protestant background and degree in politics. It was Max Weber who first pinpointed that

According to the new Protestant religions, an individual was religiously compelled to follow a secular vocation with as much zeal as possible. A person living according to this world view was more likely to accumulate money.
The new religions (in particular, Calvinism and other more austere Protestant sects) effectively forbade wastefully using hard earned money and identified the purchase of luxuries as a sin. Donations to an individual's church or congregation were limited due to the rejection by certain Protestant sects of icons. Finally, donation of money to the poor or to charity was generally frowned on as it was seen as furthering beggary. This social condition was perceived as laziness, burdening their fellow man, and an affront to God; by not working, one failed to glorify God.

The manner in which this paradox was resolved, Weber argued, was the investment of this money, which gave an extreme boost to nascent capitalism.

The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, God helps the Americans to endure sufferings of the material existence with less severity and punishes sinners, especially atheistic communists for their heresies.

According to the Providence, North Korea is left so far on the political arena with the only purpose to show what might happen to everyone should your keep on pursuing false believes )).

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Да уж, США - главарь банды международного масштаба, и уже давно. И другие главари даже рядом не стояли. А у бандитов свои понятия о порядке, справедливости и методах их достижения. И они всегда уверены, что если не карать кого-нибудь каждый день, то это будет проявлением слабости, мягкотелости...
Игорь Иртеньев | Мягкий характер

Ужасная шутка

Но я согласна, что Америка стала хулиган. Я совсем не люблю это. Вообще, люди американцы ненавижу это тоже. Мы громко говорим "НЕТ ВОЙНЫ" но руководителы не слушают. Что делать? Революция нужна? Я не знаю...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yeah, this is what I've been on about in the Politics forum. There was a talk about this back in the 1990s when a US general essentially listed all the countries and regimes the US was going to take down.
This is on video and anyone can view it on Youtube. (guess it was before they got savvy about new media..)

And it's followed the script almost precisely. Some people believe in Jewish conspiracies and what not. This is a conspiracy that is essentially right there, and the world's super power is working to it diligently for a decade and a half. They are easily 80% through the list.

The whole world is criss-crossed by a network of American military, air and naval bases. All in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". It's double speak if ever there was any. Ask the Iraqis how happy they are with their freedom, or the Libyans. That was never what it was about. They don't care at all about the Syrians either, and besides, they didn't even have it that bad. No price in destruction, refugee crisis, chaos and human suffering seems to be too high.

China can't/won't stop the USA as long as it doesn't actually target China itself. Russia can't and doesn't want to do anything since it almost ruined itself trying to keep the USA in check, and eventually lost the game anyway. It's a real tragedy.

When other bully states are discussed in a historical light you can usually find some nice things to say about it; like the Romans built roads and kept the peace; the Greek spread the love for knowledge and critical thinking; the Moslem empire in the middle age valued science and maths.

But the USA.... What will its empire be famous for? I don't think hamburgers and expensive lattes will go down to posterity! Or perhaps it'll just go down as the short-lived empire that spread the values of junk culture, depleted morals, radical capitalism and the pursuit of money and corporate profits at any cost.

I think you are right with a great deal of that.

China is just being patient, that's all. I don't think anyone 'won' the Cold War if you assess the aftermath. The U.S. is just taking a longer time to collapse. They also spent to excess on military. They are not 17 trillion dollars in debt by accident. It is funny to read about McCain here and the rants from Deb, though. I agree with some of it but the idea that those politicians (on TV) have any real power is somewhat comical. So, am I the only one here who thinks they're puppets? I notice that few Russians participate in this topic. Are most not interested or maybe they just don't want to participate with the 'regulars' who are posting in this section?

Btw, the ones that really control things are just watching as fools like McCain talk tough and try to influence the public to panic and draw support. I rarely watch these MSM news networks but they are all the same and owned by dubious corporations and controlled by shady individuals. Does anyone really think that these individuals in the public eye have any more power or control than these special interest groups? I laughed after watching one particular program in which Newt Gingerich called Putin a 'Russian nationalist.' That provoked a good snicker. Most of these politicians are either a) uninformed; b) spreading false info and distorting facts or c) outright lying and on many occasions, all three. This doesn't mean that the 'other sides' are innocent. The best rule of thumb, imho, is to hold all Governments and their main parties suspect and as untrustworthy. But, when the USA is eager to attack and control other countries, one has to keep a particular eye on what goes on there. Imho.

Please do not forget that in democracy it is o.k. to have different views and beliefs. Even if you think they are wrong, you still do not have rights to attack people for their p.o.v. I am saying it just in case.