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Thread: Каддафи хотел заменить доллар золотом

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Теперь выпущенные Монетным двором золотые и серебряные монеты можно использовать для оплаты товаров и услуг не по номиналу, а по реальной стоимости содержащихся в них драгметаллов.

    Так, золотая монета весом в 1 унцию соответствует номиналу в 50 долларов, однако ее стоимость, согласно текущим котировкам 1 унции золота, составляет 1,5 тыс. долларов. Серебряная монета весом в 1 унцию соответствует номиналу в 1 доллар, однако за унцию серебра дают сегодня 38 долларов. [...]

    Under the bill, the coins would not replace the current paper currency but would be used and accepted voluntarily as an alternative.
    Ok, so the exchange by the price of the raw material is just a barter exchange. That should theoretically not have the adverse impact on the economy on a large scale because it's being done IN ADDITION (!) to the paper tender. If some people would start hoarding raw metals, that would not seriously impact the business activity because the state can still print more paper tender.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Perhaps, but why this should be a problem of mine?
    The economy of the various countries these days is tightly coupled and any kind of drastic change would have tremendous adverse implications for Russian economy as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    That's the problem, yes. The fact that I'm obliged to invest money. Can't agree that this is a fair practice.
    You know what? I agree with you here. It's not intuitively fair. But the ghost of the Great Depression is always looming over the FAIR market economy. The periods of the slow economy. The FAIR deficit of goods as well as the FAIR great surplus of labour. Very few new enterprises are open whilst the old enterprises are closing at a regular pace. The FAIR high unemployment and FAIR low purchasing power. From a standpoint of a regular person, you don't care how the state should act, but you feel it would be FAIR for the state to interfere. So, the neoclassical economists would say: in this fair situation of the total fairness, but low living standards, let's stimulate the creation of the new enterprises first, and the employment and the purchasing power would follow. So, what do the new enterprises need? Money to start their business. Let's give them money UNFAIRLY AT THIS POINT. And when the new enterprises succeeded and covered the UNFAIR printed paper with FAIR goods and services, that effectively made that printed notes the FAIR money worth something. As a matter of fact, that is probably sophistry, but it works. The bottom line of each and every economic policy is to make the people work hard. You can motivate them by painting a pretty picture of them working hard now, but in the future them working somehow and have whatever they might need (=> from everyone according to his abilities, to everyone according to his needs => Communism), or you're painting a pretty picture of them working hard always and by that having a house, a family, a car, nice clothes, etc. (=> American dream => Capitalism). A golden standard is just another way of "putting a carrot before the donkey to make him run" as people believe the hard-earned money is theirs forever. The first food scarcity would make a wake-up call rather bluntly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Sophistry is using this rhetoric while printing dollars. Again, why other countries should be concerned about US economy?
    I think it should be a bit more specific than the "other countries". But, a short answer is the same: the financial system is tightly coupled with the US economy (as we could all have witnessed recently).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    I missed you at this turn. No matter how scarce the good-production would be - it would remain and sell those goods to those who's able to pay.
    Exactly. That was is called the "purchasing power". Before any goods or service is produce an entrepreneur should answer himself a basic question: will anybody be purchasing it at all? Then he should answer another question of: HOW MUCH of it he should produce? If there are less working people outside, he would plan for less and lay off the extra workers he would not need. Those who were fired do not have money now to purchase other enterprises goods and services which make the other enterprises plan for less and lay off their workers as well. When the purchasing power is low, the amount of produced goods and services is low as well. Say, you're a manager of a developer team in Russia which exports oil and you purchase Chinese goods. Why should you care about the US economy, right? Because, the US is a major consumer of the Chinese goods as well. If the US economy is slowing down, it would create high unemployment and reduce the purchase power of the US consumers and the production in the US goes down. The US reduces consumption from China which causes China to produce less and deteriorate their consumer purchasing power. As a result, the US and China would need less energy to produce less goods and they would purchase less oil from Russia. That would mean firing some Russian oil miners and paying less taxes to the Russian government. That would mean the whole public sector in Russia would require a bigger slice of the budget and the Russian Government would cut their expenses subsidizing other enterprises and governmental contracts which would deteriorate Russian citizens purchasing power. Your company be it public or private would feel it does not have that much contracts anymore (either directly from the government or rolled down from that) and it would fire some of the developers. Your team would be smaller and other teams would be smaller. The higher management would think they could combine the two small teams into one and plant only one manager to oversee them. Thus, you've lost your job. Of course, I simplified things because Russia does not sell oil to the US directly, but to Europe, so they would be much more economical chains, but eventually they will hit each of us. The deficit of goods caused by the surplus of labour. Fair enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    China too has doubts about using US dollar as a reserve currency. What makes USA unique? What USA really produces for export except printed dollars?
    Now, I could call that sophistry, but I wouldn't because I like you. Using the USDs as a most traded currency does add some value to it, but it definitely does not turn it into the preferred reserve currency. It's a choice of each country how they are to save their capital. If they want to purchase the US bonds - it's their choice. If they want to purchase gold and keep it in the vaults - it's their choice. If they want to build more infrastructure like roads - it's their choice. It's a free market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    If the US economy is slowing down, it would create high unemployment and reduce the purchase power of the US consumers and the production in the US goes down. The US reduces consumption from China which causes China to produce less and deteriorate their consumer purchasing power. As a result, the US and China would need less energy to produce less goods and they would purchase less oil from Russia.
    etc, etc, etc. China is NOT the main importer of Russian hydrocarbons, for one thing. Secondly, there are industries that WILL consume hydrocarbons (for heating and transportation, if nothing else, there are talks about alternatives but oil will remain the main source of energy for quite a number of years). There will be some decrease in oil consuption perhaps, but not as dramatic as you try to show me here. Besides, there are suprisingly few people working for oil and gas industry in Russia and I don't think the slowdown of the US's economy would seriously impact their well-being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    It's a choice of each country how they are to save their capital.
    It's not much of a choice. I can't save in gold or anything else, because if I want to buy something from abroad I must buy dollars first. Well, Euros in some rare case. That's the problem. Dollar must have an alternative. For competition if nothing else.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Besides, there are suprisingly few people working for oil and gas industry in Russia and I don't think the slowdown of the US's economy would seriously impact their well-being.
    Have you had a chance to notice the other consequence of the less oil export - less taxes to the Russian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    It's not much of a choice. I can't save in gold or anything else, because if I want to buy something from abroad I must buy dollars first.
    You're saying you won't be able to close balances with other freely converted currency or the currency of the importer country exchanged as per the current market price?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    Have you had a chance to notice the other consequence of the less oil export - less taxes to the Russian Government?
    How much of that really works for the people? Russian people will live badly, but not for long, remember?


    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    You're saying you won't be able to close balances with other freely converted currency or the currency of the importer country exchanged as per the current market price?
    I would, but the current realities are - there is no alternative reserve currency.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    I would, but the current realities are - there is no alternative reserve currency.
    Ok, so let's look at a good example. Say, you come to the kiosk to grab a box of the bottled beer and you see the price in the y.e. That is done to protect the sellers from the money market fluctuations. However, the seller would also accept rubles or barter (say, X bottles of vodka). Does it mean, there's no alternative reserve currency for you other than the USDs? It might be beneficiary for you to also keep a portion of your reserve currency in the USDs to also save you from the money market fluctuation, but that does not mean you are forced into the usage of the USD as you said. The same situation with oil being priced in the USDs (=y.e.) If you import anything, you don't really have to exchange rubles for the physical USDs in contrary to what you said earlier, but the other party might want to accept to the USDs as well as their local legal tender as mutually agreed between you and him in this deal. That is all to it. It's absolutely not like I've seen being mentioned earlier that the US would allegedly start military campaign agaist any country who would decide not to use the USDs for the foreign exchange or anything like that.

    Having said that, that convenience that the buyers would get by purchasing the physical USDs prior to making the deal which would effectively save them from the money market fluctuations creates the added value to the USDs. That's true. It's also true that it's purely speculative value - it only buys the convenience, but not the real goods. That would mean, that as soon as many countries would decide to make the price in Euros and would massively sell their USDs for Euros, the market price of the USD would fall and the price of the Euro would rise. The fact that the USDs are priced higher for the convenience allows the US to carry over the huge deficit year after year without worrying too much. But, that does not mean the evil financial clans who control the FRS are controlling the entire world or anything like that. It only means what it means. Every convenience has a cap on a price and every financial bubble would eventually burst out creating a more healthy situation on the market. The USD is not an exception to that rule. However, I'm against any hysteria about the FRS allegedly controlling the whole world with their evil green paper and looking day and night whoever they could impoverish they haven't yet.

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