Wikileaks?

What do you think about Wikileaks?

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Is it:

a) An honest site that publishes any and all controversial information about governments and corporations in the interest of people and justice across the world...

b) Publishing fake information about states and governments (knowingly or un-knowingly...)

c) A double-bluff; sponsored by US interests and only releasing selective damaging information to increase its credibility now, but with the objective of spreading disinformation later (popular conspiracy theory...)

d) Something else?

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The recent Afghanistan leaks certainly confirmed my own feeling that the war there is totally immoral and wrong for a number of reasons.

On the other hand, it also "revealed" involvement of Iran and Pakistan supporting the Taliban; which apparently is information that suits the interests of war hawks in the US and UK...

Plus; if this is really as serious a security leak as is being claimed, then it's pretty surprising that the USA hasn't done anything about it; There are lots of things it could do, and it's not as if bribes and asassinations are new methods to the CIA.

Everything that I've read about Wikileaks is mysterious and shrouded in uncertainty. Not sure what to think.

What do other people think about Wikileaks?

... could become as important a journalistic tool
as the Freedom of Information Act.
— Time Magazine

If it's endorsed by a magazine as entrenched in the establishement as Time, you won't find anything there that the would upset the PTBs. The best disinformation contains some truth.

Shoot Julian Assange. But seriously, I think that there are some political forces in U.S. which gains political profit from this publishing.

Here is the latest about Wikileaks, in case it interests anyone!

Julian Assange has spent quite a bit of time in Sweden (because the Wikileaks servers are based there). Last week I read that he will be writing a monthly column in the most popular evening paper in Sweden.

But just after he left Sweden it turns out that two different women are accussing him of having raped them...! So now he is wanted in Sweden for questioning by the police and the rape accusations are quickly spreading in media...!

He himself is saying that he has expected to become the subject of blackpainting in one way or another and that these accusations are exactly in line with what he had expected. I.e. information war against him, or wikileaks.

I really don't believe he raped anyone and I'd love to know what's really going on.

This is such a fascinating story:

The "real" Wikileaks server (in Sweden) had been under DDos attack by "computers controlled by a foreign power" for over a week.

It was hosted for a while by Amazon which felt pressured to stop hosting it... Right now it is in Switzerland.

Regular Americans are saying that Julian Assange should be asassinated. Charming... He's doing them a favour increasing the transparency of how their government operates.

The accusation of rape against Assange is still pending. Personally I don't believe a word of it. Meanwhile Assange is in rural United Kingdom, no doubt under surveillance by a at least two different security services (UK and US).

I am still not entirely convinced it's not a double bluff; but probably not!


All this is for telling the public what their "democratically electected" governments are doing..
Americans need to know; just like Russians, Iranians, Europeans and anyone else.

Speaking of which...
Anyone actually succeeded in reaching www.wikileaks.org? I've been trying for days. It says DNS error. So I'm asking -- HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY BEEN TO THIS SITE?

I'm hearing all kinds of news lately about it -- I think there would soon be all kinds of news rumors spreading over by the media claiming to have taken this from wikileaks.

Generally, I think it's a good idea and we need more sites like wikileaks but there's a problem -- who's going to tell us where are the facts and where is the BS? What new facts did we really learn from wikileaks? Anything that hasn't been known or at least suspected before? Only confirmation, nothing more.

But regardless of my doubts I think wikileaks begins a new era in politics. The thought that they can't hide the facts from their people anymore will be refreshing for the politicians. Since I detest and despise every politician in the world I wish all the luck to Julian Assange though I don't think he'll last for very long.

http://www.wikileaks.org
is accessible to me but very slow. Could it be blocked in Russia for some reason?
EDIT: Now it is NOT accessible - the content is not available.

EDIT: Wikileaks Paypal accounts have been frozen.

It's been DDOSed by <someone> ever since the leak of the US cables - so it is not always accessible.

The site gets attacked or forced down everywhere they go.

The problem they have is that the US is in charge of pretty much all DNS resolution and with the co-operation of the ICANN etc they can make almost any site inaccessible if they want. So Wikileaks is asking people to mirror the site and bookmark the IP address instead of the alphabetic URL.

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Originally Posted by Wikileaks front page

The cables show the extent of US spying on its allies and the UN; turning a blind eye to corruption and human rights abuse in "client states"; backroom deals with supposedly neutral countries; lobbying for US corporations; and the measures US diplomats take to advance those who have access to them.
This document release reveals the contradictions between the US’s public persona and what it says behind closed doors – and shows that if citizens in a democracy want their governments to reflect their wishes, they should ask to see what’s going on behind the scenes.

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Another reason to get rid of ICANN:
Fed up with ICANN, Pirate Bay cofounder floats P2P DNS system

Completely agree with you! Unless that happens the internet will be censored sooner or later and reduced to a useless commercial mess where you have to pay for speed and decent (commerical) content.

I hope that there are enough smart people to support this and somebody who could figure out a way to make it work.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Anyone actually succeeded in reaching www.wikileaks.org?

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http://213.251.145.96/

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Originally Posted by Ramil

but there's a problem -- who's going to tell us where are the facts and where is the BS? What new facts did we really learn from wikileaks? Anything that hasn't been known or at least suspected before? Only confirmation, nothing more.

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The volume is important. There are a great number of materials which can be checked and cross-checked from many sources - this is the confirmation. And it allows thorough research to get new facts etc. for everybody who would like to spend time. So even if it is no cheap sensation, it provides transparency.

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Originally Posted by delog

http://213.251.145.96/

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It works from Ukraine, but no wikileaks.org domain name. And no ping, failed tracert. Yeah, it looks like DDos wars.

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Originally Posted by it-ogo

The volume is important. There are a great number of materials which can be checked and cross-checked from many sources - this is the confirmation. And it allows thorough research to get new facts etc. for everybody who would like to spend time. So even if it is no cheap sensation, it provides transparency.

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Don't get me wrong. I LIKE the idea. I can even say I'm imressed. But I'm afraid that this phenomenon will soon be exploited. Who's going to conduct a serious research? Tens, maybe hundreds out of millions. Sites like wikileaks will multiply then someone might find a way to make some money out of it and then tons of BS will bury the real facts.
For now, I can only hope people will think twice before they believe anything their governments are saying. Well, if people knew how to think it would have been a better world.

• Paypal VISA and MasterCard have stopped access for donations to Wikileaks.

• Julian Assange's account with the Post bank in Switzerland was frozen.

• He is now in custody with the British police because of the rape accusations by some two Swedish women.

Don't we have wonderful democracy and freedom of speech in the EU today? [irony]. You try to give some news that really matter, and this is what happens.

I wonder if there is any country that would give Assange political asylum?

I guess it was not a double bluff after all... America never jokes about money...

Omg, I have read the fully story of the "rapes" now. How absolutely pathetic from beginning to end:

1) 100% nobody was raped; the problem is related to some kind of mild sexual misconduct. Both of the women quite voluntarily had sex with him because they were "fans" of his.
2) They got angry when they realised that he had slept with both of them but wasn't serious about either of them, and filed a complaint about sexual misconduct relating to the fact that the condom burst during sex. (is that somehow criminal??)
3) The main accuser is a woman who is a university lecturer, an extremist feminist, plus a member of the Socialist brotherhood organisation. She is known for having been deported from Cuba on grounds of feminist agitation (rofl) and meeting up with some anti-regime Americans, while on Cuba.

On her blog, she's got a section of how to get revenge on unfaithful boyfriends.
I guess that getting them unfairly deported to the USA on terrorist charges would be the ultimate revenge! On the morning after the "rape" she posted on Twitter about her nice breakfast on town with Assange, and how she bought train tickets for him. This was before she found out that her friend had also slept with him, and decided to make the claim against him. She's now off to the West Bank - I'd watch it with the guys there if I was her, I heard they are not exactly pro-feminist.

Assange is a kind of modern day hero ; thanks goodness there is no substance to the rape accusations.

All he needs now is a death sentence or assasination (or at least an attempt on his life). He'll be a martyr and will gain millions' hearts.

RU-----
Некая хакерская группировка проводит "операцию Расплата" и приглашает всех сочувствующих поучаствовать используя LOIC.
Читать далее>>

EN-----
A certain hacker group are conducting "Operation Payback" and invites all sympathizers to participate using LOIC
Read more>>

The only way to give money to Wikileaks now, is with Flattr - the new MicroPayment functionality from the Pirate Bay guys.

I have a Flattr account, so I went there to donate some money. But couldn't find where.

I wonder how much money it actually costs to keep Wikileaks running...?

Wikileaks is not cheap to run. Hosting and servers must be one million euros. I guess that also they pay for some of the information they get. Plus office, electricity, computers, travelling expenses... pizza :) Seriously, it's not cheap. But Im sure that some people/goverment/company will eventually give a good cash injection to keep to ball rolling.

How cool would wikileaks be if he published all your confidential e-mails? I'd like to see his.

I seem to remember someone changed their on-line name here so their boss wouldn't find her... A "hero" is he leaked that information?

What if Wiki-Boy leaked diplomatic cables from Russia? Can you say Polonium?

What do diplomats from (fill in the blank) have to say about Americans or other countries? What would you think if your country's information was handed out? Is he still a "hero"?

I see an Anti-American narcissistic hacker.

It's still a significant appearance. I don't mind my emails in public eye -- there's nothing special in them ))) Nothing that would harm me anyway. :lol: I'm a paranoid and encrypt everything important and I prefer to conduct business as anonymously as possible. Still, as I said -- the appearance of wikileaks indicates that no information is personal. No such thing as 'privacy' will exist soon. You may like it or not -- this will happen anyway. It'll be a new feeling for people. They will have to adapt. So, just in case -- I recommend clear your computers and maintain them in order. Every personal secret can be made available to public even now. The fact that yours are still 'secrets' means that they don't stir anyone's interest right now. There will be hundreds of wikileaks' in a number of years so the governments will have to adapt to a new reality. It may even be that they might want to play a fair game for a change. (Yes, I know, I'm only a naive dreamer :lol:)

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Originally Posted by capecoddah

What would you think if your country's information was handed out? Is he still a "hero"?
I see an Anti-American narcissistic hacker.

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Your question is a bit mute, because someone's hero is always someone's enemy at the same time, and it can't be any other way.
And it does not matter if he's narcissistic or not, the info is still useful.

Personally I do not care about America's reputation much, but I was not particularly surprised or excited by these "revelations" either, so I'm neutral about him.
Is he an American citizen? I guess in this case it can be considered a treason, and he can be prosecuted legally for revealing secret information (if there were real secrets). If he's not, American secrets are fair game.

He's an Australian.

@capecoddah: I hate when people are labelled "anti-American" in that way, as if it was a crime not to love America. People who are not American judge America on the evidence and on facts, just like we would any other country.

Personally I do oppose American foreign policy, because it's been hi-jacked by financial and corporate interests after WW2, and it is responsible for the death and poverty of millions of innocent people across the world.

Many smart and educated Americans have the same view. I think the majority of Americans would change their minds if they had access to truthful inbiased information in the news (such as what Wikileaks seems to offer). Why would anyone support foreign policy that is bankrupting them and their country, makes them very impopular across the world and is generally immoral. Assange is doing you a favour! Wake up and smell the coffee!

As for American people; I like most.. The only Americans I don't like are warhawks and brainwashed aggressive Americans who condemn everybody that doesn't worship the US...

As for revelations about Russia: Definitely! But it's probably a bit harder for Wikilieaks to get to Russian sensitive information. For me, the more I learn about the corruption in Russia and incestous relations between the government there and large business, the more apalled I get. The Russian people definitely deserves better than that. If the elections are so fradulent as some here are saying, then it would be good to read about that too. And proof one way or the other about the alleged bombing of flats in Moscow by the security services.

The one thing about Russia though is that most of the negative activities that it is responsible for take place within it's own borders - this is not the case with the US.


PS - Free Bradley Manning!

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Originally Posted by Ramil

It's still a significant appearance. I don't mind my emails in public eye -- there's nothing special in them ))) Nothing that would harm me anyway. :lol: I'm a paranoid and encrypt everything important and I prefer to conduct business as anonymously as possible. Still, as I said -- the appearance of wikileaks indicates that no information is personal. No such thing as 'privacy' will exist soon. You may like it or not -- this will happen anyway. It'll be a new feeling for people. They will have to adapt. So, just in case -- I recommend clear your computers and maintain them in order. Every personal secret can be made available to public even now. The fact that yours are still 'secrets' means that they don't stir anyone's interest right now. There will be hundreds of wikileaks' in a number of years so the governments will have to adapt to a new reality. It may even be that they might want to play a fair game for a change. (Yes, I know, I'm only a naive dreamer :lol:)

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(WHAT is the problem!! I type a response, and then am told I'm not signed in!!!!! Growl. It takes me forever in Russian, but in English????) Again:

I'm American, and I think WikiLeaks is important. I believe in free speech, after all. Embarrassing? Oh well, what doesn't kill you makes you strong! Also, the revelations just have not been particularly startling or surprising. I mean, the Arab Republic (built on oil), turning to the US for help with Iran? Was I surprised? Nope.

Besides, Wikileaks has a long and healthy history in every small town in the world. In small towns worldwide, people grow up, many secrets are known, people have different viewpoints, and life goes on, successfully. Every once in awhile, small town "Wikileaks," also known as the "rumor mill" in English, startles everyone for 15 minutes, and then life goes on, a little wiser, hopefully, than before.

In addition, I would think that the diplomatic circle would be proud to display their behind-the-scenes chess game, once in awhile. The negotiating process is really interesting, after all.

I do think that there will be many WikiLeaks online from now on. The world community can learn from small communities throughout history!

Ramil, I hope you are not a naive dreamer!

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Originally Posted by Winifred

(WHAT is the problem!! I type a response, and then am told I'm not signed in!!!!! Growl. It takes me forever in Russian, but in English????) Again:

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Yes, this is a problem on this new MR board! Seems this time limit feature could be easily fixed and turned off by Admin in the backpage.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

@capecoddah: I hate when people are labelled "anti-American" in that way, as if it was a crime not to love America. People who are not American judge America on the evidence and on facts, just like we would any other country.

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Yeah, pretty much anyone I've ever seen or heard use the phrase "anti-American" has been some patriotic bible-bashing flag-waving muslim-hating republican-voting redneck. It's like when people use the phrase "political correctness gone mad". Yes, political correctness has (in some cases) gone mad, but everyone I've ever heard utter the phrase "political correctness gone mad" has either been a racist or a borderline-racist.

/rant

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Originally Posted by Hanna

Personally I do oppose American foreign policy, because it's been hi-jacked by financial and corporate interests after WW2, and it is responsible for the death and poverty of millions of innocent people across the world.

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Как сказал один американец: "Мне тоже не нравится внешняя политика США. Поэтому я живу внутри."

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Originally Posted by Demonic_Duck

Yeah, pretty much anyone I've ever seen or heard use the phrase "anti-American" has been some patriotic bible-bashing flag-waving muslim-hating republican-voting redneck. It's like when people use the phrase "political correctness gone mad". Yes, political correctness has (in some cases) gone mad, but everyone I've ever heard utter the phrase "political correctness gone mad" has either been a racist or a borderline-racist.

/rant

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And you spout the junk... UK haters need a history lesson.
Anna is an American-Hater too, and changed her name because she lives in fear of the internet.

I have a computer older than most of you (1982) and on-line since 1991. I've seen the (Deleted. L.) for a long time.

I've listened to radio today and there were some people discussing the impact of Wikileaks on the weak minds :mosking: of journalists all over the world. They all agreed that Wikileaks appearance is a major event that bloodied the nose of the American government, but at the same time there was a rather gloating comment about the fact that 'these fools' trusted their vital information to computers. In Russia, they said, they still kepp paper archives which are much more 'secure'. Moreover, what can Wikileaks 'reveal' about Russia anyway? We all know everything about our government and don't have any illusion about their 'goodness' whatsoever.
I think, the most important lesson was taught to the Americans which says 'Don't be so gullible when your government tells you fairy-tales'. As for the rest of the world -- may things Assagne published had already been known or suspected at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoIxxBK-hTw

Jones thinks it's all fake. Bradley Manning is a plant/patsy.

He (Jones) embraces ALL conspiracy theories. Its how he makes his money. Modern day piped piper.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

I think, the most important lesson was taught to the Americans which says 'Don't be so gullible when your government tells you fairy-tales'. As for the rest of the world -- may things Assagne published had already been known or suspected at least.

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I think wikileaks impact on American minds is close to zero. To those inclined to disagree with the government wiki is just preaching to the choir. Supporters couldn't give a fig what Hilary Clinton thinks about Su Park Moon or whoever.
Nothing on that site should be even slightly surprising.

BTW, wiki claims the president of Belarus has 9 billion bucks:
Накануне во время голосования белорусскому лидеру тоже задавали вопросы: из «Викиликс» (WikiLeaks) обнаружилась и «белорусская утечка». Скандально известный ресурс, в частности, утверждал, что состояние Лукашенко якобы оценивается в девять миллиардов долларов.

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Originally Posted by sperk

BTW, wiki claims the president of Belarus has 9 billion bucks:

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I could say he had 100 million billions or only 5 cents. The question is if there is any proof. If so, it should be published in a Russian speaking paper that Belarussians can access. It would be disgusting even if it was "only" one billion.
Somehow I doubt someone who had 9 billion would bother being president of Belarus though, or?

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Originally Posted by capecoddah

And you spout the junk... UK haters need a history lesson.
Anna is an American-Hater too, and changed her name because she lives in fear of the internet.

I have a computer older than most of you (1982) and on-line since 1991. I've seen the (Deleted. L.) for a long time.

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I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't hate the UK. I don't hate the US either. And I have nothing against you personally, I was just making an observation. (Also what does the age of your computer have to do with anything?)

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Originally Posted by Nerms

He (Jones) embraces ALL conspiracy theories. Its how he makes his money. Modern day piped piper.

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*pied piper.

A lot of people feel the need to "believe in" something. For some that's religion, for others it's the paranormal, for others it's conspiracy theories. It's just a shame that some people take that need and turn it into a way to make money by spreading misinformation. (BTW please don't misinterpret me here as saying that religion is necessarily bad, I'm only saying that people who exploit religion are bad.)

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Originally Posted by Hanna

I could say he had 100 million billions or only 5 cents. The question is if there is any proof.

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Someone who have authority and 9 billion dollars can prove that day is night and night is day. So any proof will crash against this airtight argument.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

Somehow I doubt someone who had 9 billion would bother being president of Belarus though, or?

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Money and authority, are there anything more powerful in this life?

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Originally Posted by delog

Money and authority, are there anything more powerful in this life?

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Idiocy and incompetence.

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Originally Posted by delog

Someone who have authority and 9 billion dollars can prove that day is night and night is day. So any proof will crash against this airtight argument.
Money and authority, are there anything more powerful in this life?

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Good point, but remember, the whole Western world essentially is against him. 9 billion doesn't stretch very far then.. What does Bill Gates have, 20 billion? Lukashenko almost half as rich as Bill Gates... From what, illegal trade of tractors or what?? Seems impossible.

I doubt he has even 1 billion. A few million, maybe.
But remember the whole point of his popularity is that he is anti-corruption and a socialist - which is what the traditionalist voters want. If he had stolen even a few millions that would prove that he is a phony and his voters would turn against him, like they did against his predecessors.
Where is this story about the 9 billion? I can't see it on Wikileaks.

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Lukashenko almost half as rich as Bill Gates... From what, illegal trade of tractors or what?? Seems impossible.

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I don't know has he 9 billion or not, but I know that he had something more expensive than tractors.
I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile) (and other weapon) which left from USSR and was been successfully sold to Venezuela and may be somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by bsod

I don't know has he 9 billion or not, but I know that he had something more expensive than tractors.
I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile) (and other weapon) which left from USSR and was been successfully sold to Venezuela and may be somewhere else.

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Still, I doubt that even he could steal several S-300 complexes without everyone noticing. Even if Belarus had sold them to Venezuela the money couldn't go to Lukashenko's pokets. You can't be that obvious when stealing something.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

From what, illegal trade of tractors or what?? Seems impossible.

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It's very possible and has nothing to do with tractors ot any such things. The whole mess about Lukashenko's quarrel with Kremlin is about resale of Russian oil to EU. Lukashenko claims that since Belorussia is in customs union with Russia so he should get Russian oil without duty by Russian inside prices. Russia says ok, no prob. BUT! Let's count how much oil Belorussia needs? Say, certain amount (for example the last year's amount of inside consumption). So Belorussia will recieve such an amount without duty. But if we count and amount that Belorussia actualy bought, it's several times greater. There is the rest? Was resold to the EU countries. Who have got the profit? Lukashenko. So Russia denied to sponsor Lukashenko with that money anymore, but looks like several weeks before the elections they have found some compromise.