Thread: Who is who? Political Compass

Originally Posted by Hanna

Maybe it pegged me as a Marxist because I said that I strongly agree with "from each according to his ability.... " So what!!! That's a lovely vision...!

How did it peg you as a Marxist? lol
And, um, what exactly is this "marxism" you speak of.

Well I just don't like that my fairly balanced and middle of the road views get classed as some kind of communist revolutionary position by this survey! If this was right I would feel completely at home in Cuba since I am a political buddy of Castro. Haven't been there but I seriously doubt that would be the case.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well I just don't like that my fairly balanced and middle of the road views get classed as some kind of communist revolutionary position by this survey! If this was right I would feel completely at home in Cuba since I am a political buddy of Castro. Haven't been there but I seriously doubt that would be the case.

first of all it's just a simplified diagram that does not reflect full complexities of political views (like any binary opposition) -- so chill and take it for what it is

and then words like "communist" or "revolutionary" are just shortcuts to ... something and they're reductive; to accurately describe any kind of position would involve more than just an easily available and vaguely defined label
within "communism" and "revolutionary" there is a whole spectrum of possibilities, just as there is within the "right" labels; left is not all about "let's get together and blow up some capitalists" just as right is not all about "let's get together and oppress us some poor"

if labels offend you, dont use them

...

Originally Posted by Seraph

I believe questionnaire is biased

Hmm... Could you show in what question “right idea” is used like “left idea”, and where control = freedom?

This test (as I understand) works easy: each assertion is assessed like left, right, authoritarian or liberal. If you agree, you get +1 point, if you agree partially, you get + 0.5, if you disagree, you get -1 (for left and liberal assertions the signs of points are inverse). Then all your answers about economics are summarized, and your answer about freedom are summarized too. This two values are used like pair of coordinates. If you want to be in the center, you should get equal quantity of negative and positive points. Just look at the results of Почемучка and Hanna: both are not far from one of the zero (horizontal or vertical), so the center is a possible position.

Ok, this is my new result, and this is what I imagined, when answered again.

So, test is right.

Originally Posted by Звездочёт

Ok, this is my new result, and this is what I imagined, when answered again.

So, test is right.

I think the difficulty of perception is the fact that it has 2 axis. Being on the left doesn't make you a "communist" (just as there isnt one single kind of "communism". Communisms of the Paris Commune, Lenin, Castro, Mao, Stalin, 1960s radicals are very very different. But back to the graph: Stalinism, for example is in the upper left hand corner. Being on the bottom left, puts you in the company of anarcho-syndicalists, who are definitely not communists. Being on the left but on the center of the vertical axis, makes you a centrist except you support more "leftist" economic policies, for whatever reasons. An example that explains this better, is that Friedman and Ghandi are on the libertarian side of the vertical axis -- but they are there for very different reasons. To understand that you need to combine it with the horizontal axis.

But, again, despite the added complexity, it is just a simplified diagram. There is a huge difference between "idealized" beliefs and how we negotiate them in the "real". And a person can hold a variety of competing and contradictory views. I know I do.

Also, this chart does not take into account "what kind of action do you find acceptable for achieving your ideal society" (let's put it this way). So, anarchisms for example, have a wide range of answers to this. Some tend towards violence, some tend towards peace and civil disobedience. But then you need some complex 3d model.

Originally Posted by Seraph

Now how to get into the purple..

This is my way get into the purple. Yes, my result is not absolutely, that means: I was wrong in some question (It seems, I answered another way in 1.1 previous time for example). However the result is convincing.


Page 1
1.1 If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of transnational corporations (vertical axis, VA) — strongly agree (strongly down).
1.2 I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong (VA) — strongly disagree.
1.3 No one chooses his or her country of birth, so it's foolish to be proud of it (VA) — strongly agree.
1.4 Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races (VA) — SD.
1.5 The enemy of my enemy is my friend (VA) — SD.
1.6 Military action that defies international law is sometimes justified (VA) — SD.
1.7 There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment (VA) — SD.

Page 2
2.1 People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality (horizontal assertion, HA) — SD (?).
2.2 Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment. (HA) — SA.
2.3 Because corporations cannot be trusted to voluntarily protect the environment, they require regulation (HA) — SD.
2.4 "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is a fundamentally good idea (HA) — SD.
2.5 It's a sad reflection on our society that something as basic as drinking water is now a bottled, branded consumer product (HA) — SD (all is commodity!).
2.6 Land shouldn't be a commodity to be bought and sold (HA) — SD (look upwards).
2.7 It is regrettable that many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society (HA) — SD (we need banks!!!).
2.8 Protectionism is sometimes necessary in trade (HA) — SD (free market).
2.9 The only social responsibility of a company should be to deliver a profit to its shareholders (HA) — SA.
2.10 The rich are too highly taxed (HA) — SA (progressive scale of tax is the idea of social-oriented economics).
2.11 Those with the ability to pay should have the right to higher standards of medical care (HA) — SA.
2.12 Governments should penalise businesses that mislead the public (HA) — SD (independent market).
2.13 A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies (HA) — SD.
2.14 The freer the market, the freer the people (HA) — SA.

Page 3
3.1 Abortion, when the woman's life is not threatened, should always be illegal (VA) — SD.
3.2 All authority should be questioned (VA) — SA.
3.3 An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth (VA) — SD.
3.4 Taxpayers should not be expected to prop up any theatres or museums that cannot survive on a commercial basis (HA) — SD.
3.5 Schools should not make classroom attendance compulsory (VA) — SA (down to anarchy).
3.6 All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind (VA) — SD.
3.7 Good parents sometimes have to spank their children (VA) — SD.
3.8 It's natural for children to keep some secrets from their parents (VA) — SA.
3.9 Possessing marijuana for personal use should not be a criminal offence (VA) — SA.
3.10 The prime function of schooling should be to equip the future generation to find jobs (VA) — SA (?).
3.11 People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce (VA) — SD.
3.12 The most important thing for children to learn is to accept discipline (VA) — SD.
3.13 There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures (VA) — SA.
3.14 Those who are able to work, and refuse the opportunity, should not expect society's support (HA) — SA.
3.15 When you are troubled, it's better not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things (VA) — SA.
3.16 First-generation immigrants can never be fully integrated within their new country (VA) — SD.
3.17 What's good for the most successful corporations is always, ultimately, good for all of us (HA) — SA.
3.18 No broadcasting institution, however independent its content, should receive public funding (HA) — SA.

Page 4
4.1 Our civil liberties are being excessively curbed in the name of counter-terrorism (VA) — SA.
4.2 A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system (VA) — SD.
4.3 Although the electronic age makes official surveillance easier, only wrongdoers need to be worried (VA) — SD.
4.4 The death penalty should be an option for the most serious crimes (VA) — SD.
4.5 In a civilised society, one must always have people above to be obeyed and people below to be commanded (VA) — SD.
4.6 Abstract art that doesn't represent anything shouldn't be considered art at all (VA) — SD.
4.7 In criminal justice, punishment should be more important than rehabilitation (VA) — SD.
4.8 It is a waste of time to try to rehabilitate some criminals (VA) — SD.
4.9 The businessperson and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist (HA) — SA.
4.10 Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers (VA) — SD.
4.11 Multinational companies are unethically exploiting the plant genetic resources of developing countries (HA) — SD.
4.12 Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity (VA) — SD.

Page 5
5.1 Astrology accurately explains many things (VA) — SA.
5.2 You cannot be moral without being religious (VA) — SD.
5.3 Charity is better than social security as a means of helping the genuinely disadvantaged (HA) — SA.
5.4 Some people are naturally unlucky (HA) — SD.
5.5 It is important that my child's school instills religious values (VA) — SD.

Page 6
6.1 Sex outside marriage is usually immoral (VA) — SD.
6.2 A same sex couple in a stable, loving relationship, should not be excluded from the possibility of child adoption (VA) — SA.
6.3 Pornography, depicting consenting adults, should be legal for the adult population (VA) — SA.
6.4 What goes on in a private bedroom between consenting adults is no business of the state (VA) — SA.
6.5 No one can feel naturally homosexual (VA) — SD.
6.6 These days openness about sex has gone too far (VA) — SD.

...

Originally Posted by Seraph

I'll give just one example of bias, in this case out of the plane of the chart.

1.5 The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As indicated by your results, SD points down, you have as VA, libertarian, and you were making into purple.

However, strongly authoritarian people, from left and right, Stalin and Bush, also know/knew that the enemy of one's enemy could be temporarily friend, or temporarily enemy, then switching. In other words, they would SD also. Not necessarily friend at all.

And so this is completely independent of left, right, authoritarian, or libertarian. For the survey authours to sum this into their political polarisation from this then it is faulty logic, because all experienced people from left, right, authoritarian, libertarians know that the enemy of my enemy can switch sides. And so people from all parts of chart could strongly disagree with 1.5. ( And some other types of people would agree with 1.5)

And so the third axis that Quartz suggested might include something about naivety/experience. This question 1.5 would show up on an experience/naivety scale. Not on the axes shown. It should not be here. To include it makes an illogical bias. Among others, like 2.8, both left and right, authoritarian and libertarian have done protectionism, USA, USSR and others at different times in history. I haven't counted all the illogical examples.

However, it is interesting to see how you have moved the result around. It hadn't tried it yet, to get into purple.

In principle, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is an authoritarian position. Purely libertarian position is one of absolute self determination -- so it wouldn't matter what my enemy or enemy of my enemy thinks. I can choose whichever for myself. The authoritarian position doesn't mean that they cannot alternate between yes or no, but rather that there is, most likely, some sort of a categorical answer. Think of it as "rule-bound" vs "absolute freedom".

This correlates with authoritarian vs. libertarian views on loyalty to one's country. Libertarian position is strongly disagree, authoritarian is strongly agree.

I'm happy with my results (I don't mind being "to the left"), though I imagined I'd be closer to the authoritarian square. My Mom's always telling me that I'm too categorical.

I'm here.

Типа центрист



Surprizzed how much in common I have with some forum dwellers here despite numerous heating debates.

Where are some of the Russian politicians on this map, do you think?
I mean particularly D. Medvedev, Putin and any serious challengers to them or the Edinaya Rossia party.

Where is Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine, and Lukashenko in Belarus? And Nazarbaev in Kazakhstan)?

And another thing: According to "popular wisdom" in Western Europe at least.. Russians LIKE authoritarian rule of their country, a bit like East Asians do.. Perhaps because that can be pretty efficient if the leader is good. But that doesn't seem to be true for anyone here!

Seraph is the most "authoritarian" minded person who took the test, and he is American (I think.?)

Do you think the rumour is wrong, or are the Russian people here exceptions to the rule for some reason...?

...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Seraph is the most "authoritarian" minded person who took the test, and he is American (I think.?)

He was just playing with answers, as he said above, looks like the most authoritarian minded person among those who posted their chart here is me .

Do you think the rumour is wrong, or are the Russian people here exceptions to the rule for some reason...?

It's because we saw only two alternatives here before - strong authoritarian rule or complete chaos without almost any laws (like it was in 90s). So some of our politicans (including Putin and United Russia) often speculate on this like: "Huh, you want more freedom? Don't like our order? Think we are authoritarian? So you want to return to the chaos of 90's and bandit's rule!"

Originally Posted by mishau_

[s:3hzf9bpf]Surprizzed[/s:3hzf9bpf] Surprised at how much in common I have with some forum dwellers here despite numerous [s:3hzf9bpf]heating[/s:3hzf9bpf] heated debates.

Хотя было много политических споров на этом форуме, я думаю, что все согласились, что зимой отопление хорошо.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Where are some of the Russian politicians on this map, do you think?
I mean particularly D. Medvedev, Putin and any serious challengers to them or the Edinaya Rossia party.

Hmm... I think Putin and Edinaya Rossia are moderate authoritarian, Medvedev is more liberal. As concerns their vision of economics, I think all of them somwhere at right.

My results:



I think the questions are clearly biased towards the left/libertarian. That's why so many members had their results in the same quadrant.

@Croc...
Your political buddy is Milton Friedman. Apparently he was very boring.... At least with Nelson Mandela and Castro I'd have a bit of fun

I respect your views though because I know that they are well founded.

@Basil77... Russia's example is really extreme. It was unbelievable what happened to you in the 1990s really. I have no problem understanding that a lot of people prefer a bit of authoritarianism after that... Seeing normal people have to sell their personal possessions in the market was just insane. Not to mention the criminality and robbery-capitalism that was rampant. Perhaps an extreme situation like that could only be fixed by a really heavy handed leader.

I think my political views would be quite different if I was Russian, but I don't know exactly how.