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Who is who? Political Compass
Долго колебался, где именно это разместить. Решил всё-таки сюда. Вот "политический компас" -- тест, который позволяет определить, каков же ваш политический вектор: http://politicalcompass.org/test.
А здесь, кому нужно, перевод вопросов на русский: http://www.computerra.ru/sgolub/424950/. Интересно узнать, насколько постоянные русскоязычные обитатели форума склоны к либеральным идеям, а то смотрю, тут в ветке про консерватизм что-то страшное люди пишут. :)
Мой результат вот такой:
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...6.00&soc=-4.56
Инструкция по интерпретации диаграммы тут: http://politicalcompass.org/analysis2.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Nice one although the questions are too obvious.
I beat you in the lower left corner :mosking:
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...8.62&soc=-8.56
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quartz my dear, I am afraid you are a Communist HIPPIE! :mosking:
:ROFL: Now DDT will never add you to his buddy list!
Well, I have never thought of myself as Left, but according to this survey, I am!
However, I gave all the standard Christian answers the moral questions, so I registered as less liberalist than I really am; I just don't support gay marriages and the like. I have never actually voted for a socialist party. Seriously don't like a Big Brother state that knows everything about everyone and likewise I hate the power that large corporations have over politics and peoples' lives.
My closest poilitical "buddies" were: Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi and Fidel Castro...
CARDS ON THE TABLE LADS!!!
Let's see Ramil's score for starters!!!
Maybe they need to design a whole new chart, just for him!!!
ME:
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...8.75&soc=-0.31
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Quartz my dear, I am afraid you are a Communist HIPPIE! :mosking:
:ROFL: Now DDT will never add you to his buddy list!
LOL @ communist hippie (commie for short?) :flazhok:
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
My result:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/733/pcgraphpnglb.png
I guess my closest friends (according to this test) are Robert Mugabe, Mahmoud Abbas and of course our dear Hanna! :wink: :)
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...1.62&soc=-4.46
I don't have many neighbors, though the Dalai Lama stands a little to my left and I'm exactly as libertarian-ish as звездочёт! I didn't realize that I was such a centrist...
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
I have never actually voted for a socialist party. Seriously don't like a Big Brother state that knows everything about everyone.
Hmm... It is not socialism. The horizontal axis of the plot shows our vision of economics: absolutely free market at right and fair economics at left (it’s including protectionism, social equality, etc). The total control, which you speak, belongs to vertical axis. Just look at the Stalin's position.
http://politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
And there are those free-market fans? I thought Adam Smith is much popular than Karl Marx these days! :roll:
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Звездочёт
Hmm... It is not socialism. The horizontal axis of the graph show_ our vision of economics: absolutely free market at right and fair economics at left (this includes protectionism, social equality, etc). The total control_ of which you speak_ belongs on the vertical axis. Just look at _Stalin's position.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
And there (where?) are those free-market fans? I thought Adam Smith is much more popular than Karl Marx these days! :roll:
Actually, if you read Adam Smith, many of his ideas would clash with the modern neo-liberal free-market democracies.
Sales of Das Kapital increased dramatically after the recession hit. So have the sales of Ayn Rand, though.... I guess things balance out.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
I must be politically schizophrenic though; I like a lot of what both Adam Smith and Marx say! :wacko: But it's absolutely impossible to combine their ideologies unless you seriously compromise both ideologies (=social democracy??), right?
Sometimes I think that a lot of people are too stupid, egoistical, gullible or fanatical in their beliefs to be able to to "qualify" as voters in a democracy... I voted for a party once which had made some environmental commitments but when they got into power they just backed on the position they had claimed to support during the election campaign - lots of people said they knew that would happen, but I had believed them...
I mean there are people eligible to vote who are murderers, illiterate and generally crazy....
Then there is the whole "buy democracy" debate which argues that whichever party has the most money for expensive campaigns that can twist peoples head to believe their messages win.. Usually parties that favour right wing agendas and get money form big business. Some countries try to control this, but there are always ways around it..
And in other countries where one party has a long stretch of reign and have time to put in place a self perpetuating setup whereby whereby half the population is dependant on some subsidies or other programs that only they support; so people vote for them to keep the cushy setup.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
I must be politically schizophrenic though; I like a lot of what both Adam Smith and Marx say!
Yes, they are great economists blah, blah, blah... The problem is that they both were building economical models for the "wrong" people. With those ones who are living on this humble planet their theories don't work unfortunately.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
I must be politically schizophrenic though; I like a lot of what both Adam Smith and Marx say! :wacko: But it's absolutely impossible to combine their ideologies unless you seriously compromise both ideologies (=social democracy??), right?
I like a lot of things Adam Smith says too and you saw my chart!
“Our merchants frequently complain of the high wages of British labour as the cause of their manufactures being undersold in foreign markets, but they are silent about the high profits of stock. They complain of the extravagant gain of other people, but they say nothing of their own. The high profits of British stock, however, may contribute towards raising the price of British manufactures in many cases as much, and in some perhaps more, than the high wages of British labour” Adam Smith in "The Wealth of Nations"
Political economy developed because thinkers were trying to locate the source of value. In a secularised universe, it was very mysterious where value comes from. Smith, very importantly, placed the source of value in work, something that was mystified both by his contemporaries and by many current free-market ideologies (where it is considered that value comes from capital not from labour). On that very important point, Marx concurs.
I don't think one should follow any ideology blindly and to the letter, especially if that ideology is a few centuries old, so compromise isn't a huge issue. Marx himself disliked the word Marxism.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
So many left-wingers here :)
So am I, here:
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...5.00&soc=-7.59
By the way, I've already taken this test a couple of years ago and I was amazed to see that my political views had changed. I've become less radical in my views though my sympathies still are to the left.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
Now I know how they think!
But we still don't know how YOU think. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
So many left-wingers here
Yes. it's an interesting result. And note, almost all famous politicians are in the opposite corner of the graph. So, is it another proof the democratic idea "a government represent people" doesn't work in practice? :sad: Or, left-wingers just concentrated here.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Звездочёт
Yes, it's an interesting result. And note, almost all famous politicians are in the opposite corner of the graph. So, is it another proof that the democratic idea "a government represents the people" doesn't work in practice? :sad: Or, are the left-wingers just concentrated here.
There are many people not on the graph who would be in the opposite quadrant. =)
But, it's interesting to see where the current leaders of Europe are situated, I agree.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
So many left-wingers here.
No there must be something wrong with the survey. As far as I am concerned, my answers were simply indicating that;
1) I support free health care, education and a decent minumum standard of living for everyone in my country. Who in Europe doesn't???
2) I am suspicious against corporations and their profit driven agendas. But does anyone seriously think that BP and Microsoft are nice and caring organisations?
3) I think the USA and its' reluctant allies should stop invading countries that don't subscribe to its' worldview. And so does at least half of Western Europe...
These are completely normal views! It does not make me a revolutionary!
Maybe it pegged me as a Marxist because I said that I strongly agree with "from each according to his ability.... " So what!!! That's a lovely vision...!
Do I need to say "From everyone depending on his social class or IQ, to everyone according to his ability to pay...." to be normal.
I think the survey might be skewed to the right! Who made it?
Margaret Thatcher and George W Bush are more to the right than the chart indicates.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Maybe it pegged me as a Marxist because I said that I strongly agree with "from each according to his ability.... " So what!!! That's a lovely vision...!
How did it peg you as a Marxist? lol
And, um, what exactly is this "marxism" you speak of.
:roll:
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Well I just don't like that my fairly balanced and middle of the road views get classed as some kind of communist revolutionary position by this survey! If this was right I would feel completely at home in Cuba since I am a political buddy of Castro. Haven't been there but I seriously doubt that would be the case.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Well I just don't like that my fairly balanced and middle of the road views get classed as some kind of communist revolutionary position by this survey! If this was right I would feel completely at home in Cuba since I am a political buddy of Castro. Haven't been there but I seriously doubt that would be the case.
first of all it's just a simplified diagram that does not reflect full complexities of political views (like any binary opposition) -- so chill and take it for what it is
and then words like "communist" or "revolutionary" are just shortcuts to ... something and they're reductive; to accurately describe any kind of position would involve more than just an easily available and vaguely defined label
within "communism" and "revolutionary" there is a whole spectrum of possibilities, just as there is within the "right" labels; left is not all about "let's get together and blow up some capitalists" just as right is not all about "let's get together and oppress us some poor"
if labels offend you, dont use them
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
I believe questionnaire is biased
Hmm... Could you show in what question “right idea” is used like “left idea”, and where control = freedom?
This test (as I understand) works easy: each assertion is assessed like left, right, authoritarian or liberal. If you agree, you get +1 point, if you agree partially, you get + 0.5, if you disagree, you get -1 (for left and liberal assertions the signs of points are inverse). Then all your answers about economics are summarized, and your answer about freedom are summarized too. This two values are used like pair of coordinates. If you want to be in the center, you should get equal quantity of negative and positive points. Just look at the results of Почемучка and Hanna: both are not far from one of the zero (horizontal or vertical), so the center is a possible position.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Ok, this is my new result, and this is what I imagined, when answered again.
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...=8.88&soc=7.69
So, test is right.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Звездочёт
I think the difficulty of perception is the fact that it has 2 axis. Being on the left doesn't make you a "communist" (just as there isnt one single kind of "communism". Communisms of the Paris Commune, Lenin, Castro, Mao, Stalin, 1960s radicals are very very different. But back to the graph: Stalinism, for example is in the upper left hand corner. Being on the bottom left, puts you in the company of anarcho-syndicalists, who are definitely not communists. Being on the left but on the center of the vertical axis, makes you a centrist except you support more "leftist" economic policies, for whatever reasons. An example that explains this better, is that Friedman and Ghandi are on the libertarian side of the vertical axis -- but they are there for very different reasons. To understand that you need to combine it with the horizontal axis.
But, again, despite the added complexity, it is just a simplified diagram. There is a huge difference between "idealized" beliefs and how we negotiate them in the "real". And a person can hold a variety of competing and contradictory views. I know I do.
Also, this chart does not take into account "what kind of action do you find acceptable for achieving your ideal society" (let's put it this way). So, anarchisms for example, have a wide range of answers to this. Some tend towards violence, some tend towards peace and civil disobedience. But then you need some complex 3d model.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
Now how to get into the purple..
This is my way get into the purple. Yes, my result is not absolutely, that means: I was wrong in some question (It seems, I answered another way in 1.1 previous time for example). However the result is convincing.
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...7.75&soc=-6.41
Page 1
1.1 If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of transnational corporations (vertical axis, VA) — strongly agree (strongly down).
1.2 I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong (VA) — strongly disagree.
1.3 No one chooses his or her country of birth, so it's foolish to be proud of it (VA) — strongly agree.
1.4 Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races (VA) — SD.
1.5 The enemy of my enemy is my friend (VA) — SD.
1.6 Military action that defies international law is sometimes justified (VA) — SD.
1.7 There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment (VA) — SD.
Page 2
2.1 People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality (horizontal assertion, HA) — SD (?).
2.2 Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment. (HA) — SA.
2.3 Because corporations cannot be trusted to voluntarily protect the environment, they require regulation (HA) — SD.
2.4 "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is a fundamentally good idea (HA) — SD.
2.5 It's a sad reflection on our society that something as basic as drinking water is now a bottled, branded consumer product (HA) — SD (all is commodity!).
2.6 Land shouldn't be a commodity to be bought and sold (HA) — SD (look upwards).
2.7 It is regrettable that many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society (HA) — SD (we need banks!!!).
2.8 Protectionism is sometimes necessary in trade (HA) — SD (free market).
2.9 The only social responsibility of a company should be to deliver a profit to its shareholders (HA) — SA.
2.10 The rich are too highly taxed (HA) — SA (progressive scale of tax is the idea of social-oriented economics).
2.11 Those with the ability to pay should have the right to higher standards of medical care (HA) — SA.
2.12 Governments should penalise businesses that mislead the public (HA) — SD (independent market).
2.13 A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies (HA) — SD.
2.14 The freer the market, the freer the people (HA) — SA.
Page 3
3.1 Abortion, when the woman's life is not threatened, should always be illegal (VA) — SD.
3.2 All authority should be questioned (VA) — SA.
3.3 An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth (VA) — SD.
3.4 Taxpayers should not be expected to prop up any theatres or museums that cannot survive on a commercial basis (HA) — SD.
3.5 Schools should not make classroom attendance compulsory (VA) — SA (down to anarchy).
3.6 All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind (VA) — SD.
3.7 Good parents sometimes have to spank their children (VA) — SD.
3.8 It's natural for children to keep some secrets from their parents (VA) — SA.
3.9 Possessing marijuana for personal use should not be a criminal offence (VA) — SA.
3.10 The prime function of schooling should be to equip the future generation to find jobs (VA) — SA (?).
3.11 People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce (VA) — SD.
3.12 The most important thing for children to learn is to accept discipline (VA) — SD.
3.13 There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures (VA) — SA.
3.14 Those who are able to work, and refuse the opportunity, should not expect society's support (HA) — SA.
3.15 When you are troubled, it's better not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things (VA) — SA.
3.16 First-generation immigrants can never be fully integrated within their new country (VA) — SD.
3.17 What's good for the most successful corporations is always, ultimately, good for all of us (HA) — SA.
3.18 No broadcasting institution, however independent its content, should receive public funding (HA) — SA.
Page 4
4.1 Our civil liberties are being excessively curbed in the name of counter-terrorism (VA) — SA.
4.2 A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system (VA) — SD.
4.3 Although the electronic age makes official surveillance easier, only wrongdoers need to be worried (VA) — SD.
4.4 The death penalty should be an option for the most serious crimes (VA) — SD.
4.5 In a civilised society, one must always have people above to be obeyed and people below to be commanded (VA) — SD.
4.6 Abstract art that doesn't represent anything shouldn't be considered art at all (VA) — SD.
4.7 In criminal justice, punishment should be more important than rehabilitation (VA) — SD.
4.8 It is a waste of time to try to rehabilitate some criminals (VA) — SD.
4.9 The businessperson and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist (HA) — SA.
4.10 Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers (VA) — SD.
4.11 Multinational companies are unethically exploiting the plant genetic resources of developing countries (HA) — SD.
4.12 Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity (VA) — SD.
Page 5
5.1 Astrology accurately explains many things (VA) — SA.
5.2 You cannot be moral without being religious (VA) — SD.
5.3 Charity is better than social security as a means of helping the genuinely disadvantaged (HA) — SA.
5.4 Some people are naturally unlucky (HA) — SD.
5.5 It is important that my child's school instills religious values (VA) — SD.
Page 6
6.1 Sex outside marriage is usually immoral (VA) — SD.
6.2 A same sex couple in a stable, loving relationship, should not be excluded from the possibility of child adoption (VA) — SA.
6.3 Pornography, depicting consenting adults, should be legal for the adult population (VA) — SA.
6.4 What goes on in a private bedroom between consenting adults is no business of the state (VA) — SA.
6.5 No one can feel naturally homosexual (VA) — SD.
6.6 These days openness about sex has gone too far (VA) — SD.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
I'll give just one example of bias, in this case out of the plane of the chart.
1.5 The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
As indicated by your results, SD points down, you have as VA, libertarian, and you were making into purple.
However, strongly authoritarian people, from left and right, Stalin and Bush, also know/knew that the enemy of one's enemy could be temporarily friend, or temporarily enemy, then switching. In other words, they would SD also. Not necessarily friend at all.
And so this is completely independent of left, right, authoritarian, or libertarian. For the survey authours to sum this into their political polarisation from this then it is faulty logic, because all experienced people from left, right, authoritarian, libertarians know that the enemy of my enemy can switch sides. And so people from all parts of chart could strongly disagree with 1.5. ( And some other types of people would agree with 1.5)
And so the third axis that Quartz suggested might include something about naivety/experience. This question 1.5 would show up on an experience/naivety scale. Not on the axes shown. It should not be here. To include it makes an illogical bias. Among others, like 2.8, both left and right, authoritarian and libertarian have done protectionism, USA, USSR and others at different times in history. I haven't counted all the illogical examples.
However, it is interesting to see how you have moved the result around. It hadn't tried it yet, to get into purple.
In principle, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is an authoritarian position. Purely libertarian position is one of absolute self determination -- so it wouldn't matter what my enemy or enemy of my enemy thinks. I can choose whichever for myself. The authoritarian position doesn't mean that they cannot alternate between yes or no, but rather that there is, most likely, some sort of a categorical answer. Think of it as "rule-bound" vs "absolute freedom".
This correlates with authoritarian vs. libertarian views on loyalty to one's country. Libertarian position is strongly disagree, authoritarian is strongly agree.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...4.50&soc=-3.18
I'm happy with my results (I don't mind being "to the left"), though I imagined I'd be closer to the authoritarian square. My Mom's always telling me that I'm too categorical. :oops:
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Типа центрист :)
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook...0.62&soc=-4.77
Surprizzed how much in common I have with some forum dwellers here despite numerous heating debates. :flazhok:
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Where are some of the Russian politicians on this map, do you think?
I mean particularly D. Medvedev, Putin and any serious challengers to them or the Edinaya Rossia party.
Where is Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine, and Lukashenko in Belarus? And Nazarbaev in Kazakhstan)?
And another thing: According to "popular wisdom" in Western Europe at least.. Russians LIKE authoritarian rule of their country, a bit like East Asians do.. Perhaps because that can be pretty efficient if the leader is good. But that doesn't seem to be true for anyone here!
Seraph is the most "authoritarian" minded person who took the test, and he is American (I think.?)
Do you think the rumour is wrong, or are the Russian people here exceptions to the rule for some reason...?
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Seraph is the most "authoritarian" minded person who took the test, and he is American (I think.?)
He was just playing with answers, as he said above, looks like the most authoritarian minded person among those who posted their chart here is me :D .
Quote:
Do you think the rumour is wrong, or are the Russian people here exceptions to the rule for some reason...?
It's because we saw only two alternatives here before - strong authoritarian rule or complete chaos without almost any laws (like it was in 90s). So some of our politicans (including Putin and United Russia) often speculate on this like: "Huh, you want more freedom? Don't like our order? Think we are authoritarian? So you want to return to the chaos of 90's and bandit's rule!"
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishau_
[s:3hzf9bpf]Surprizzed[/s:3hzf9bpf] Surprised at how much in common I have with some forum dwellers here despite numerous [s:3hzf9bpf]heating[/s:3hzf9bpf] heated debates. :flazhok:
Хотя было много политических споров на этом форуме, я думаю, что все согласились, что зимой отопление хорошо. :D
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Where are some of the Russian politicians on this map, do you think?
I mean particularly D. Medvedev, Putin and any serious challengers to them or the Edinaya Rossia party.
Hmm... I think Putin and Edinaya Rossia are moderate authoritarian, Medvedev is more liberal. As concerns their vision of economics, I think all of them somwhere at right.
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
My results:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1526/politicalview.png
I think the questions are clearly biased towards the left/libertarian. That's why so many members had their results in the same quadrant. :unknown:
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Re: Who is who? Political Compass
@Croc...
Your political buddy is Milton Friedman. Apparently he was very boring.... At least with Nelson Mandela and Castro I'd have a bit of fun :yahoo:
I respect your views though because I know that they are well founded.
@Basil77... Russia's example is really extreme. It was unbelievable what happened to you in the 1990s really. I have no problem understanding that a lot of people prefer a bit of authoritarianism after that... Seeing normal people have to sell their personal possessions in the market was just insane. Not to mention the criminality and robbery-capitalism that was rampant. Perhaps an extreme situation like that could only be fixed by a really heavy handed leader.
I think my political views would be quite different if I was Russian, but I don't know exactly how.