Thread: What are we up to ... in Ukraine?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41787

What are we up to ... in Ukraine?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 6, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.


In the 1940s, as Stalinists were seizing Czechoslovakia, ex-OSS agents were running bags of money to Italy and France to ensure the communists were defeated in national elections.

In the 1950s, using a rent-a-mob, the CIA effected the ouster of an anti-American regime in Iran and the overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala. In the 1980s, after Solidarity was crushed by Gen. Jaruzelski, Ronald Reagan secretly aided the Polish resistance

Many of us applauded these Cold War means, as we believed that the ends ・security of the West and survival of freedom ・justified them.

But when news broke that South Africa was maneuvering to buy the Washington Star in the 1980s, this city was ablaze with indignation. How dare they seek to corrupt American media! In the 1990s, when China was caught using cutouts to funnel cash to the Clinton campaign, we were full of righteous rage.

Given this history, several question arise. Are we today using Cold War tactics in a post-Cold War era? Are we guilty of the same gross interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine, trying to fix their election, we would consider outrageous and criminal if done to us?

Are we Americans hypocrites of global democracy?

Consider what we have apparently been up to in Ukraine.

According to the Guardian and other sources, NED ・the National Endowment for Democracy ・and USAid, Freedom House, the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and George Soros' Open Society Institute all pumped money or sent agents into Kiev to defeat the government-backed Viktor Yanukovich and elect Viktor Yushchenko as president. Allegedly in on the scheme is the supposedly objective and neutral Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

The Guardian's Jonathan Steele describes how we put the fix in:


Yushchenko got the Western nod, and floods of money poured in to groups which support him, ranging from the youth organization, Pora, to various opposition websites. More provocatively, the U.S. and other Western embassies paid for exit polls ...


Those polls showed Yushchenko winning by 11, demoralizing the opposition and convincing most Ukrainians he was the next president.

But, on election day, Yushchenko, like Kerry, lost by three, as the populous eastern Ukraine delivered the same huge margins for favorite son Yanukovich as did western Ukraine for Yushchenko.

Into the streets came scores of thousands of demonstrators, howling fraud and demanding that Yushchenko be inaugurated. Engaging in civil disobedience, and backed by the West, the crowds intimidated parliament, President Kuchma and the judiciary into declaring the election invalid.

John Laughland writes in the Guardian of the double standard our media employ:


Enormous rallies have been held in Kiev in support of the prime minister, Viktor Yanukovich, but they are not shown on our TV screen ... Yanukovich supporters are denigrated as having been "bussed in." The demonstrators in favor of Yushchenko have laser lights, plasma screens, sophisticated sound systems, rock concerts, tents to camp in and huge quantities of orange clothing; yet we happily dupe ourselves that they are spontaneous.


Laughland is saying the Yushchenko demonstrations may be as phony as that U.S-Albanian war in the Dustin Hoffman-Robert DeNiro film "Wag the Dog." He calls Pora "an organization created and financed by Washington," like Otpor and Kmara, which were used in Serbia and Georgia to oust leaders Washington wished to be rid of. Pora's symbol, writes Laughland, depicts "a jackboot crushing a beetle."

If the United States has indeed been interfering in Ukraine to swing the election of a president who will tilt to NATO, against Moscow, we are, as Steele writes, "playing with fire."


Not only is [Ukraine] geographically and culturally divided ・a recipe for partition or even civil war ・it is also an important neighbor of Russia ... Ukraine has been turned into a geostrategic matter not by Moscow, but by the U.S., which refuses to abandon the Cold War policy of encircling Moscow and seeking to pull every former Soviet republic to its side.


Our most critical relationship on earth is with the world's other great nuclear power, Russia, a nation suffering depopulation, loss of empire, breakup of its country and a terror war. That relationship is far more important to us than who rules in Kiev.

For us to imperil it by using our perfected technique of the "post-modern coup" ・as we did in Serbia and Georgia and failed to do in Belarus ・to elect American vassals in Russia's backyard, even in former Soviet republics, seems an act of imperial arrogance and blind stupidity.

Congress should investigate NED and any organization that used clandestine cash or agents to fix the Ukrainian election, as the U.S. media appear to have gone into the tank for global democracy, as they did for war in Iraq.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SPECIAL OFFER: Pat Buchanan's book, "The Death of the West," an eye-opening expos・of how immigration invasions are endangering America, is now available at HALF-PRICE from WorldNetDaily's online store! Autographed edition also available!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick J. Buchanan was twice a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination and the Reform Party candidate in 2000. He is also a founder and editor of the new magazine, The American Conservative. Now a political analyst for MSNBC and a syndicated columnist, he served three presidents in the White House, was a founding panelist of three national television shows, and is the author of seven books.

I hate Pat Buchanan. He called us Canadians names and verbally abused us because we wouldn't join in on the war with Iraq.
Where is the tolerance for different views and opinions here? Not very democratic, for a member of gov that's always saying they"ll "bring democracy to the middle east"

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

I hate Pat Buchanan. He called us Canadians names and verbally abused us because we wouldn't join in on the war with Iraq.
Where is the tolerance for different views and opinions here? Not very democratic, for a member of gov that's always saying they"ll "bring democracy to the middle east"

There seem to be plenty of Canadians who side with some of Buchanan's views though. Some, in Western Canada are ready to leave Canada over politics initiated in Eastern Canada.

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

I hate Pat Buchanan. He called us Canadians names and verbally abused us because we wouldn't join in on the war with Iraq.

When did he say that? Considering hes opposed to the war in Iraq. Are you sure you're not confusing Buchanan with say Ann Coulter?


http://mediamatters.org/items/200412010011

Coulter: Canada is "lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent"; Carlson: "Without the U.S., Canada is essentially Honduras"


On November 30, as President Bush visited Canada to meet with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin in an effort to improve the two countries' strained relations, right-wing pundit Ann Coulter and CNN Crossfire co-host Tucker Carlson ridiculed the United States' northern neighbor. On FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes, Coulter said that Canadians "better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent." On CNN's Wolf Blitzer Reports, Carlson stated: "Without the U.S., Canada is essentially Honduras, but colder and much less interesting"; he went on to say that instead of following politics, "the average Canadian is busy dogsledding." And on Crossfire, Carlson referred to the "limpid, flaccid nature of Canadian society."

Canada is the United States' largest trade partner. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. trade with Canada accounted for a cumulative $38.5 billion dollars in September 2004 alone. Further, as Bush noted in a December 1 speech in Halifax, Nova Scotia, "Canada has taken a series of critical steps to guard against the danger of terrorism." In its country profile of Canada, the U.S. State Department website notes:

The bilateral relationship between the United States and Canada is perhaps the closest and most extensive in the world. It is reflected in the staggering volume of trade--the equivalent of over $1 billion a day in goods, services, and investment income--and people, more than 200 million a year crossing the U.S.-Canadian border. In fields ranging from law enforcement cooperation to environmental cooperation to free trade, the two countries have set the standard by which many other countries measure their own progress.

Below are excerpts from Coulter's and Carlson's Canada-bashing.

From the November 30 edition of FOX News' Hannity & Colmes:

COULTER: Conservatives, as a general matter, take the position that you should not punish your friends and reward your enemies. And Canada has become trouble recently.

It's -- I suppose it's always, I might add, the worst Americans who end up going there. The Tories after the Revolutionary War, the Vietnam draft dodgers after Vietnam. And now after this election, you have the blue-state people moving up there.

[...]

COULTER: There is also something called, when you're allowed to exist on the same continent of the United States of America, protecting you with a nuclear shield around you, you're polite and you support us when we've been attacked on our own soil. They [Canada] violated that protocol.

[...]

COULTER: They better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent.

[...]

COULTER: We could have taken them [Canada] over so easily.

[ALAN] COLMES: We could have taken them over? Is that what you want?

COULTER: Yes, but no. All I want is the western portion, the ski areas, the cowboys, and the right-wingers.

[...]

COULTER: They don't even need to have an army, because they are protected, because they're on the same continent with the United States of America. If we were not the United States of America, Canada -- I mean, we're their trading partner. We keep their economy afloat.

[...]

ELLIS HENICAN [Newsday columnist]: We share a lot of culture and a lot of interests. Why do we want to have to ridicule them and be deeply offended if they disagree with us?

COULTER: Because they speak French.

COLMES: There's something else I want to point out about the French. Is it's fashionable again on your side to denounce the French.

COULTER: We like the English-speaking Canadians.

From the November 30 edition of CNN's Wolf Blitzer Reports:

CARLSON: Without the U.S., Canada is essentially Honduras, but colder and much less interesting.

[...]

CARLSON: We exploit your [addressing Canadian Member of Parliament Carolyn Parrish] natural resources, that's true. But in the end, Canadians with ambition move to the United States. That has been sort of the trend for decades. It says something not very good about Canada. And I think it makes Canadians feel bad about themselves and I understand that.

[...]

CARLSON: Canada needs the United States. The United States does not need Canada.

[...]

CARLSON: I think if Canada were responsible for its own security -- you would be invaded by Norway if it weren't for the United States.

[...]

CARLSON: [A]bsolutely the countries will remain allies and there will always be politicians who see it to their benefit to stomp on Bush dolls [referring to action taken by Parrish]. But no, I don't think the average Canadian feels -- the average Canadian is busy dogsledding.

[...]

PARRISH: No, there's not a lot of dogsledding. There's a lot of dog walking, my friend. Not a lot of dogsledding.

CARLSON: Welcome to our century.

From the November 30 edition of CNN's Crossfire:

CARLSON: Canada's essentially -- essentially a made-in-Taiwan version of the United States.

[...]

CARLSON: I'm surprised there was anybody left in Canada to attend the protests. I noticed that most sort of vigorous, ambitious Canadians, at least almost all comedians in Canada, come to the United States in the end. Doesn't that tell you something about the sort of limpid, flaccid nature of Canadian society, that people with ambition come here? What does that tell you about Canada?

— A.S.

rofl, I don't want to start anything but the US should think before they insult Canada. Sure we're not a superpower like them, but it's childish of them to make such comments. It's pretty easy to insult any country as none are perfect. And it's funny because the US is about the only country that seems to have a problem with Canada. The US is one of the world's most hated countries politically - what does that tell you about the US? It's more like a brotherly hate - we annoy each other but are too important to each other to ever take it to the next step.

Note: I have nothing against the States, I'm merely just pointing out how articles like this are so stupid. Attacking any country in this fashion is childish and does nothing but create hostilities between niave people.

Originally Posted by spymoose

rofl, I don't want to start anything but the US should think before they insult Canada.

Although I'm a conservative of sorts, I do find Ann Coulter and her breed to be laughable as well. In fact Im disgusted with how low conservatism has reached in the United States(something that even Edmund Burke would be vomit at).

The US is one of the world's most hated countries politically - what does that tell you about the US?

Exactly....Americans need to stop getting into other peoples businesses and stop this redneck attitude of "American rules, F*ck everybody else". Theres a difference between geniune patriotism and jingoism(in a very moronic fashion I might add).

Much of this can be said of the irrational hatred in this country for the French.

Note: I have nothing against the States, I'm merely just pointing out how articles like this are so stupid. Attacking any country in this fashion is childish and does nothing but create hostilities between niave people.

Indeed.

Yeh, one thing that really bothers me is how the States seems to think the rest of the world needs to disarm because they can threaten the US. However, the US seems to think it's their right to have WMDs and it's out of the question for a global disarming.

Again, I'm not bashing, I'm pointing out why many countries have a strong hatred for Americans. The thing is, these countries hate the US because of politics and their government leadership. It seems that America is intent on hating everyone aside from Americans. They randomly hate Canadians and the French as well as a lot of other people for no sound reason.

IMHO every country has faults within their population but a country that only looks out outsiders faults and not their own is the world's worst enemy.

I watched the said piece with Ann Coulter so I know exactly how Coulters words were intended and in what context they were said and she said nothing that was untrue or threatening about Canada. Her comments were in response to allegations that the US is like Hitler and only wants world domination and her defence was that if that were true we would have taken over Canada already. Loosly paraphrased. I will not go into the rest because it woild only be a waste of my time, you have already made you minds up. Whats more there are a lot of Canadians who would agree with her. I lived in Western Canada and I don't know anyone who would give two hoots if French speaking Canada formed their own country and said "bye-bye".

Thank you, interesting article.

Originally Posted by Bandera

Given this history, several question arise. Are we today using Cold War tactics in a post-Cold War era?

"Post-Cold War era", eh? Cold War continues. It never ended, actually.

Originally Posted by Scorpio

"Post-Cold War era", eh? Cold War continues. It never ended, actually.

At one point I think the the cold war slowed down a bit and it is true that speaking Russian is no no longer at the top of the list of Language Skills when enlisting NSA or CIA DIA NRO employees. But the amount of espionage between Russia and USA has greatly increased in the last few years. It may mean nothing though, as we are all equal opportunity spies here and spy on our friends aswell as our enemies.