Thread: Ukrainian Corruption Memorial

sounds like Dutch

It's Danish. The text displayed around the Yanukovic photo says "Power and Riches"
It's a very predictable type of story - the standard fare on Western European TV. A real pity because there is SO much more to the Ukraine.

"Yanukovich is corrupt, the treatment of Julia Tymoshenko is unacceptable to the EU...."
and there is some talk of boycotting the Euro2012 games in Kiev because of this.

They are calling the Ukraine a "chaotic and corrupt country".

Apparently the EU president (van Rumpuy) just said that the president of Ukraine is not welcome in the EU.

I totally agree that it is vulgar and unsuitable for a relatively new leader to build a gigantic palace in a country that struggles with poverty. But this is not exactly the only country in the world where this happened. Pretty much everywhere outside Europe... Tony Blair for one, got VERY rich from his years as prime minister. Sarkozy too, is very rich indeed. In the USA you have to be rich to even become a president. Why is this a worse scandal just because it happens in Ukraine.

Their doesn't seem to be any solid PROOF for the accusations.
I think it is unprofessional of the Danish journalists to allow people to speculate in the news, and then not present any proof.
This was an angled story with a clear agenda.

does it make it any more acceptable just because of those who you listed?

the presidents you listed are/were the heads of relatively rich, successful countries ruled by the law, therefore their wealth looks more natural and not so much as an eyesore, as you yourself put it 'it is vulgar and unsuitable... in a country that struggles with poverty'

what accusations do you mean? i couldn't understand a word of the commentary, but the speech of the featured Ukrainian journalist didn't sound biased or unfounded to me, i hear, see and read it day in and day out.

the lifestyle of this individual is on par with some of the most louche African chiefs, what's troubling is that it happens not in Africa but in the modern day Europe, even though only geographically

You live in Ukraine, right?

What would you like to see happen?

• Do you want other Europeans to boycott Euro2012?

• Do you want Yanukovich to be banned from entering the EU?

• Do you think it is a good or a bad thing that these types of stories constitute 95% of the news coverage about Ukraine in Western Europe?

• Do you think that the previous president, and Yulia Tymoshenko were less corrupt than Yanukovich?

Several other people on this forum also live in Ukraine - it would be interesting to hear their view as well as yours.

In case you are not aware, the EU position towards Ukraine changed after Yanukovich became president. For some reason unknown to me... the EU more or less liked the previous president.

After seeing only this type of biased coverage, I arrived in Ukraine as a tourist, frankly expecting terrible criminality and problems with poverty. I was prepared for "the worst". But what I found was a country full of extremely warm and friendly people, probably less beggars than many Western European countries and not more criminality than elsewhere. I think the picture of Ukraine presented in Western European papers is misleading.

I can see that you do not feel this way, since you have posted several quite negative threads about Ukraine.
I sympathise that you are frustrated by some problems in your country, but perhaps you are being a bit hard?

It is obvious that there are big problems with corruption in Russia and Ukraine, but many people, even here on MR take a very cynical and accepting view of this, and the motivation doesn't seem to be very strong from the political leaders either. Nobody else can or want to fix the problems with corruption in these countries. The people have to push for it and the politicians have to become more angry. But I honestly don't see how biased news coverage helps anyone!
I understand Danish and that story was seriously angled. People listening to this (and a similar story every 1-2 weeks) will get a very negative opinion indeed, of the Ukraine.

Originally Posted by Hanna

You live in Ukraine, right?

What would you like to see happen?

• Do you want other Europeans to boycott Euro2012?

yes, as it doesn't any longer represent European aspirations of Ukraine, it was so under the previous administration however incapable it was, but certainly not now. this is nothing but the proverbial Potemkin Village.
how is this possible when at the same time people in towns across Donetsk region receive running water in their houses by schedule and it hardly reaches upper floors?
but if europeans come, those who have eyes will just see for themselves
https://www.facebook.com/NoEuro2012InUkraine

Originally Posted by Hanna

• Do you want Yanukovich to be banned from entering the EU?

actually no, i'd prefer European officials to remind him of the state of affairs in Ukraine every time he visits EU

Originally Posted by Hanna

• Do you think it is a good or a bad thing that these types of stories constitute 95% of the news coverage about Ukraine in Western Europe?

i welcome this trend because i don't believe it's motivated by hostility towards Ukrainian people, it's Ukraine's authorities business to make an effort to change the country's image in Europe
positive things are always taken for granted, it's the negative things which draw attention
after all mass media is after scandals, so if Ukraine can provide some scandalous stories, why avoid them? especially when Ukrainians themselves consider them just as scandalous

Originally Posted by Hanna

• Do you think that the previous president, and Yulia Tymoshenko were less corrupt than Yanukovich?

Tymoshenko was not a president but a prime minister, the president was Yushenko
I don't think she's less corrupt, plus she's a pathological liar, her activity as prime minister was a joke, however their administration declared pro-European policy and their inner policy was a lot more liberal both economically and politically.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Several other people on this forum also live in Ukraine - it would be interesting to hear their view as well as yours.

In case you are not aware, the EU position towards Ukraine changed after Yanukovich became president. For some reason unknown to me... the EU more or less liked the previous president.

There could be some underhanded reasons, but on the face of it, it's an individual who's personal history, background and associates are well known and it doesn't make you want to like him

Originally Posted by Hanna

After seeing only this type of biased coverage, I arrived in Ukraine as a tourist, frankly expecting terrible criminality and problems with poverty. I was prepared for "the worst". But what I found was a country full of extremely warm and friendly people, probably less beggars than many Western European countries and not more criminality than elsewhere. I think the picture of Ukraine presented in Western European papers is misleading.

corruption and corrupt mentality is the keynote of great many things which are going on, you need to live it to start to find out, some became so obvious and mundane that almost everybody stopped noticing them or consider corrupt and abnormal.
maybe some of them you regarded as just exotic and attributed to national specifics

Originally Posted by Hanna

I can see that you do not feel this way, since you have posted several quite negative threads about Ukraine.
I sympathise that you are frustrated by some problems in your country, but perhaps you are being a bit hard?

i could concede that it's me who i'm hard on, i need to just start not giving a shit LOL
but it makes life comfortless

Originally Posted by Hanna

It is obvious that there are big problems with corruption in Russia and Ukraine, but many people, even here on MR take a very cynical and accepting view of this, and the motivation doesn't seem to be very strong from the political leaders either. Nobody else can or want to fix the problems with corruption in these countries. The people have to push for it and the politicians have to become more angry. But I honestly don't see how biased news coverage helps anyone!
I understand Danish and that story was seriously angled. People listening to this (and a similar story every 1-2 weeks) will get a very negative opinion indeed, of the Ukraine.

they are cynical because they came to terms, i didn't
the politicians' motivation cannot be strong by definition because they subsist on corruption when they come to power

so by being angled do you mean the story is untrue?

Well the thing is, most people don't really stop to reflect what they hear on the news.
The viewers of that news story will simply put in the back of their head:
"Ukraine is a corrupt country with corrupt leaders and lots of poverty...." If they meat a Ukrainian, they may treat the person with suspicion. The average Danish person probably has never met anyone from Ukraine and they probably don't know anyone whos been there on holiday either.

I think it would be better if people thought FIRST of the culture, the friendly people, the beautiful landscape and interesting history of the Ukraine.
and then AFTER that thought "what a shame that there is a problem with corruption in Ukraine at the moment". I wonder if there is anything we can do to help?

Personally I had a positive "personal" view of Ukraine before going there, because I knew some nice Ukrainian programmers in London, and I knew somebody who had been to a sea resort in Ukraine and said it was really good. But I was still very worried about criminality because of negative media coverage.

Sorry if I sound like I don't understand the problems and your frustration... perhaps I don't, fully.

As a Ukrainian, can I ask you:

Did you support the "Orange Revolution" at the time it happened?

How do you feel about it today?

Do you think that either Russia or Belarus is run better than the Ukraine? Would you prefer to live in either of those countries, over Ukraine? Or are you fed up and prefer to emigrate?

Would you consider getting politically active to try to change things?