Thread: Syria

Originally Posted by Hanna

I wonder which regime is next?

No denying, one of the remaining rogue states.* The “social disposition” is absolutely straightforward, there’s the open society and its enemies (Sir Karl Raimund Popper). The enemies, aka rogues, want to destroy the open society by hook or by crook and forcefully impose their evil will on “openers” and other human animals. It’s social darwinism after all.

*Rogue state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by diogen_

No denying, one of the remaining rogue states.* The “social disposition” is absolutely straightforward, there’s the open society and its enemies (Sir Karl Raimund Popper). The enemies, aka rogues, want to destroy the open society by hook or by crook and forcefully impose their evil will on “openers” and other human animals. It’s social darwinism after all.

*Rogue state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wikipedia article you are referring to, starts with the sentence

"Rogue state is a controversial term"

@Diogen
Did you notice the word "controversial" and the subsequent explanation of reservations of various groups about the phrase?

The term is a perfect example of propaganda. Everyone who doesn't see the world like yourself, is "mad", "rogue" or something similar...
You repeat it over and over for a few years until it becomes the truth.
After that, you've got the perfect excuse for going after your enemy with the blessing of the population who is "aware" (like yourself) of how "bad" the enemy is.

Goebbels wrote a book about how to execute this type of propaganda, and successfully used this technique to convince the Germans that the Jews were freaks, and to turn their back as they were sent off to forced labour or death.

You can't be serious coming to a forum full of Russians and making statements like this.
During the Cold War, all of the Eastern bloc countries, in particular the USSR were "Rogue" according the the US worldview. Cuba, North Korea among others are still viewed in this way by the USA, according to Wiki. So I take it you would have been quite happy to see an attack against their country leading to thousands or millions dead Russian, just because your own nation was governed according to a different ideology than theirs?

I'd recommend this book for you Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower

(Haven't read it myself, but it's linked to from the Wikipedia article you yourself quoted. )

@Hanna

Analyze the consequences. There are two possible outcomes.

1. Imperialism wins rogues. Life will be essentially like now i.e. more or less normal without global wars and social experiments. Proof: nothing has changed to the worse after some rogue states stopped being rogue and become “normal”.

2. Rouges win imperialists. In the case life will be a) similar to life under Communism or b)similar to life under Taliban. The latter was in Chechnya when it was de facto independent. Shariat law, human rights abuse, total censorship, drag traffic, killings of “ infidels”, religious oppression, absence of political freedom, corruption, clan system etc. Do you want to live under these conditions? I hardly believe so. As to the former scenario see the video:

Originally Posted by diogen_

@Hanna

Analyze the consequences. There are two possible outcomes.

1. Imperialism wins rogues. Life will be essentially like now i.e. more or less normal without global wars and social experiments. Proof: nothing has changed to the worse after some rogue states stopped being rogue and become “normal”.

2. Rouges win imperialists. In the case life will be a) similar to life under Communism or b)similar to life under Taliban. The latter was in Chechnya when it was de facto independent. Shariat law, human rights abuse, total censorship, drag traffic, killings of “ infidels”, religious oppression, absence of political freedom, corruption, clan system etc. Do you want to live under these conditions? I hardly believe so. As to the former scenario see the video:

What I would add to this is, there are people who don't want to live in rogue states themselves, but for some reason think those who already do should continue, and shouldn't be helped to turn their lives to the better. Neither of the Syrian regime supporters here would willingly move there and live under such a system.

@Hanna
Your previous message is a little bit emotional and with ad hominem arguments.

Communism proved to be economically inapt in every country where it was established in the past, including the USSR. It’s a fact. As to China I believe its current economic groth is due to market economy and not because of the former planning system, isn’t it? As for its political system, my guess it’s only a remnant of the past.

Originally Posted by diogen_

@Hanna
Your previous message is a little bit emotional and with ad hominem arguments.

Really? Can you give examples please?

Originally Posted by diogen_

@Hanna
Communism proved to be economically inapt in every country where it was established in the past, including the USSR. It’s a fact. As to China I believe its current economic groth is due to market economy and not because of the former planning system, isn’t it? As for its political system, my guess it’s only a remnant of the past.

Still China does much better than Russia economically. This is possibly because there was no large-scale privatization of key assets.

Originally Posted by Anixx

Still China does much better than Russia economically. This is possibly because there was no large-scale privatization of key assets.

No, the real issue is that local communists realized all the futility of their former efforts to organize efficient command economy and had to agree to reform it using market methods in order to stay in power as long as possible.

Реформы были начаты в 1978 по инициативе крыла прагматиков в Коммунистической партии Китая (КПК), которое возглавлял Дэн Сяопин, и продолжаются по сей день. Реформаторы поставили перед собой цель создания прибавочной стоимости, достаточной для финансирования модернизации китайской экономики, которая находилась на грани катастрофы после провала политики «большого скачка» и командных методов, проводимых Мао Цзэдуном. Первоначальной задачей реформ было решение проблемы мотивации рабочих и крестьян и ликвидация экономических диспропорций, характерных для командных экономик.

Политика реформ и открытости — Википедия

Originally Posted by Eric C.

What I would add to this is, there are people who don't want to live in rogue states themselves, but for some reason think those who already do should continue, and shouldn't be helped to turn their lives to the better. Neither of the Syrian regime supporters here would willingly move there and live under such a system.

Please tell me what's the problem with Syria so that you call it "rogue". I currently see only one argument why Syria is bad, that is because it supported Hesballah. Otherwise it is a quite typical state.
In 2008 Assad wanted to sign a peace treaty with Israel and open embassies, but the USA did not allow for that.

Originally Posted by Anixx

Please tell me what's the problem with Syria so that you call it "rogue". I currently see only one argument why Syria is bad, that is because it supported Hesballah. Otherwise it is a quite typical state.
In 2008 Assad wanted to sign a peace treaty with Israel and open embassies, but the USA did not allow for that.

Well, my guess is, killings of thousands of people by one man to keep the power he inherited from his dad make it a bit less "typical". What's yours?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Well, my guess is, killings of thousands of people by one man to keep the power he inherited from his dad make it a bit less "typical". What's yours?

Any state kills rebels. What's so special?

Originally Posted by diogen_

Какая замечательная клюква. Ну и как положено, общечеловеки опять приписали Сталину "гибель одного человека - трагедия, гибель миллионов - статистика".

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Какая замечательная клюква. Ну и как положено, общечеловеки опять приписали Сталину "гибель одного человека - трагедия, гибель миллионов - статистика".

клюква ?!

Anyway - the more they create videos like this, the better they feel about the fact that they themselves are responsible for millions of death around the world - in conflicts that the US has no business being involved in at all. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Aghanistan, Pakistan (drone attacks), Libya (should have been left completely alone) and now Syria. +many more. Whatever Stalin was doing (which I understand is not a clearcut matter) he did in his own country - there are varying opinions and hard to no what is truth, propaganda or exaggeration.

I just think it's rather pathetic that so many people have to drag up Stalin, in discussions about modern politics. Stalin represents nobody but himself! He does not represent the USSR, Russia, modern Russian people or anything else. Sure, he lived in Moscow and called himself a Communist - but most educated people can recognise that that was just the beginning of his complex and rather self-serving ideological outlook.

Additionally: Hello!.......... it was 60 years ago! What does it matter? 60 years ago there was also segregation in the USA, colonialism oppression perpetrated by various European countries, imprisonment of gay people and sterilisation of gypsies in many present day European countries. Plus, according to many Russians here, Stalin actually accomplished some rather positive things in certain areas, and is appreciated by quite a few people. Either way - there is absolutely 0 connection between Stalin and the events in Syria.