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Thread: Speaking about Superpowers..... CHINA?!

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Speaking about Superpowers..... CHINA?!

    I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about CHINA, in light of their political views, their nationality or any other factors that influences your view.

    I think that the Chinese language is very cool, and I know that Chinese people are hardworking and industrious.


    • But is China as a super power going to be good, evil or neither?
    • Does Russia, the USA or any other country have anything to fear from China?
    • How do Americans feel about China as their sugar daddy / creditor?
    • How do Russians feel about China being a neighbour super power, the fake Communism there or anything else that you have reflected on? China and Russia have been on/off enemies for centuries if I am not mistaken!


    There really are some pretty serious restrictions on the press there - I came across it today at work. They are blocked from ALL video streaming sites for example. The censorship is really very efficient. I saw with my own eyes that they missed nothing, and it's really pretty cleverly set up. Working around it takes a fair amount of technical skills.

    Is China a sinister country that is plotting for influence in Africa and the Middle East, as many are saying, or are they a remarkably decent super power that keeps its hands to itself and refrains from meddling in other countries?

    I have not got a lot of experience with Chinese people from Mainland China, but it feels there is a quite a big cultural difference, a bit like with Indians.

  2. #2
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    I think that China is a colossus with feet of clay. Although it is very powerful and may even look frightening, its well-being is very dependant on the ability of the Chinese government to feed that horde of people. Any instability might cause China to fall apart like USSR did some time ago. China might seem homogenous from the outside, but technically it's can turn into a very loose federation or even confederation of 20+ different territories. If that happens, that will be a global catastrophe, because it will create a very explosive situation in the whole South-Eastern Asia.
    From the other hand, further growing in strength might give the Chinese government some peculiar ideas about making its way in the international politics more like its Western, 'more civilized' opponents. This, of course, will too bring the world on the brink of a new world war. Either way, I can't see any good solution to the 'Chinese problem'. Perhaps their leaders will have wisdom to find a better, safer way to develop further, there is always hope.
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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    From my point of view, China is progressing very rapidly, thanks to their leaders. And it is rather peaceful country by nature. Besides, they have many domestic problems, and wishing to continue their development.
    Of course, when it become superpower #1, there could be temptations to fix the world order. And there is possibility, that some crazy man will come to rule in China.

  4. #4
    Hanna
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    Very interesting responses from both of you. I had not thought of those things; that China has the prerequisite to disintegrate like the USSR did, or the effects on the rest of the world if something happened to the manufacturing industry there.

    After reading your comments, it occurred to me that the leadership there is pretty clever and may be looking after their citizens a lot better than what they get credit for - at least in Western media.

    The censorship, executions, forced abortions and pollution is PART of the story, but not all of it. If I was an average Chinese and was living a 5 times more comfortably than my parents I would not necessarily be upset just because I could not go on Youtube or have a large family.

    About 10 years ago, I worked with a Chinese girl who forcefully defended Chinas politics to all colleagues who could not resist asking her about them. She had both sides of the story, and choose to stick with China's position. I remember her defending the policy of families having only one child, very strongly and eloquently. Of course - this girl was practically a genius, sent abroad to gain work experience. Perhaps her views were part of the reason she was sent on this work exchange. Nevertheless, she impressed me a lot with her near perfect English and fantastic productivity.

    Allowing China to disintegrate and fall into chaos, could be worse than keeping a very tight and sometimes ruthless reign on things. Perhaps if China disintegrated, things would be much worse than they were for the USSR - and affect other countries too.

    China has not done anything that *really* upsets me outside its own current borders, so according to my worldview, I give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being...

    What are the major outlines of China's conflicts and relationship with Russia?

  5. #5
    Почтенный гражданин Dmitry Khomichuk's Avatar
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    China consists of many nations. They have many internal problems. They still use hieroglyphs, because it doesn't keep phonetics. There are many languages inside China. China provides assimilation politics. So in Tibet and East Turkestan locals fight (death is common) with settlers.
    If you show this map in China you can go to prison. http://s.lurkmore.to/images/1/1b/China_map.jpg
    Only one child is permitted in family (you should pay for others). So when it is girl, they often do abortion. There are one girl for 5 boys in China today.
    China is buying Africa. When all were looking to Libya, France made 4 revolts to establish puppets.
    About military strength, "China can not into war". They have never won wars. They are buying middle Asia (exUSSR republics). You can read about First Socialistic War (Vietnam-China).

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    And it is rather peaceful country by nature.
    Peaceful?
    On March 2, 1969, a group of Chinese troops ambushed Soviet border guards on Zhenbao Island. The Soviets suffered 59 dead, including a senior colonel, and 94 wounded.
    Sino-Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  7. #7
    Властелин
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    But is China as a super power going to be good, evil or neither?
    Like all the states - pragmatic.
    There are one girl for 5 boys in China today.
    that's an exaggeration. Maybe 1,15 boys for 1 girl. There are exceptions for this rule (one family - one child), but it will lead to a demographic crisis if it is not changed.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    I think that China is a colossus with feet of clay. Although it is very powerful and may even look frightening, its well-being is very dependant on the ability of the Chinese government to feed that horde of people. Any instability might cause China to fall apart like USSR did some time ago. China might seem homogenous from the outside, but technically it's can turn into a very loose federation or even confederation of 20+ different territories. If that happens, that will be a global catastrophe, because it will create a very explosive situation in the whole South-Eastern Asia.
    From the other hand, further growing in strength might give the Chinese government some peculiar ideas about making its way in the international politics more like its Western, 'more civilized' opponents. This, of course, will too bring the world on the brink of a new world war. Either way, I can't see any good solution to the 'Chinese problem'. Perhaps their leaders will have wisdom to find a better, safer way to develop further, there is always hope.
    Any country must feed its citizens. China is very strong and it will probably become the main country in the world soon. There won't be a big war because of nuclears weapons.

  9. #9
    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    Yes, Basil, peaceful. Otherwise it was not the group but 1000000000 men

  10. #10
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    $2/an hour!
    60 hours a week!
    Suicides!

    No Apples for me.
    Apple Chinese Factory Foxconn Nightline FULL 15 MIN VIDEO - YouTube

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Any country must feed its citizens.
    Yeah, but food is growing more scarce and more expensive with each passing year. Scientists predict that even developed countries might soon be facing this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    China is very strong and it will probably become the main country in the world soon.
    A colossus on clay feet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    There won't be a big war because of nuclears weapons.
    Yes, what about nuclear weapons? All Russian and American nuclear forces combined wouldn't probably be able to disable China's potential even now.
    Nukes cannot maintain peace any more.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  12. #12
    Hanna
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    They let ALL school leavers go through some kind of elementary military service as part of the regular school curriculum, and I believe they also have compulsory military service. Seems like they want to be prepared for whatever the future may bring...

    I don't view China as militarily aggressive right now, but like Maxim said, this might change in the future...
    Another risk is that China becomes commercially aggressive, similar to the USA.

    I don't think anyone would as stupid as starting a war with nuclear weapons but the truth of the matter is, I don't even know whether China has nukes, officially or unofficially... Does anyone know?

    Horrible video in Lampada's video!!! Really makes you think.
    I saw a story on the BBC where they showed an Apple worker in China some Apple products in a finished state. She had never seen what the finished products looked like, despite having worked for a long time in an Apple factory, and there was no possibility whatsoever of her ever being able to afford an Apple product. Compare with factory workers in Europe and the USA.

  13. #13
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    China has had nuclear weapon since 1964. It has officially. The military service is obligatory, but relatively few people go through it and it is considered desirable by people.

  14. #14
    Почтенный гражданин
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    I remember her defending the policy of families having only one child, very strongly and eloquently.
    I fully agree with that policy.
    They had a very good reason for that - to prevent overpopulation.
    This is actually a global problem (except in some parts like ex-USSR) - more countries which have too high population growth (especially in Africa) should follow this Chinese policy.
    Серп и молот - смерть и голод!

  15. #15
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    Some countries (like Latvia) don't have enough people. They can open borders to Chinese and Indian people

  16. #16
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    Russian Far East also is kinda empty - Chinese can start populating this area first (it is also right next to China)
    Latvia can wait...
    Серп и молот - смерть и голод!

  17. #17
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by nulle View Post
    I fully agree with that policy.
    They had a very good reason for that - to prevent overpopulation.
    This is actually a global problem (except in some parts like ex-USSR) - more countries which have too high population growth (especially in Africa) should follow this Chinese policy.
    It might come soon enough. And, yes, of course it makes practical sense, if you look at it from a strictly utilitarian perspective.

    But I thought you were 100% for freedom & liberty and the rest of the flagship values of "the West".

    And now you are suddenly defending the extremely intrusive and oppressive law of a communist dictatorship - a law that is critisized by Amnesty and hundreds of human rights and Christian organisations....!

    Surely you have heard that the Chinese sometime perform forced abortions on some women who are found to be breaking this law? That many parents deliberately abort or abandon female foetuses in order to get a boy rather than a girl, and that the Chinese now have a noticeable imbalance between young men and young women - to the degree that some men in rural areas simply buy a wife from a poorer area, or get someone from another country.

    Like I said, I personally don't think it's a nice law, but I understand and respect that China felt it was necessary. It is not my business although as a woman and as a Christian I am totally apalled and disgusted at the idea of forced abortions.

    But this is EXACTLY the sort of policy that you would have spit venom on for ages if the USSR had come up with, in fact, you have critisized considerably less intrusive policies of the USSR.
    Imagine if your mother, sister, wife or girlfriend was dragged off by the police and your baby aborted, leaving her traumatised for the rest of her life.

    And Africa is the LEAST populated continent, there is no need for population control there! The reasons for occational bouts of starvation there are related to the skewed agriculture which is largely aimed towards export, and the fast change in lifestyle which was caused by colonialism, and the problems caused by randomly drawn national borders. If those things could be alleviated, then there would be no starvation at all there.

    The most overpopulated continent of the world, is actually Western Europe. http://www.wpclipart.com/geography/e..._square_km.png
    Marcus likes this.

  18. #18
    Почтенный гражданин
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    BTW, in Russia there is the government program to boost population growth. It's called "материнский капитал". Mothers are given money for each newborn (or adopted) child, starting from the second one. Current amount is 387640 roubles (10000 euro), adjusted for inflation every year. This sum of money can be used in three ways only (fully or partly):
    - as a payment for child's higher education in the future;
    - as a payment for housing improvement (e.g. mortgage payment);
    - or as a pension contribution for mother (note: Russian women currently retire at the age of 55).

    I hope these measures will make Russian birth rate go up.

  19. #19
    Hanna
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    Perhaps Russia could accept some immigration to the far Eastern parts, from China?
    I mean, for example allowing people that fit certain criteria to immigrate. I assume things are better in Russia than in most of China and that there'd be people interested in immigrating...
    Or would you disagree with that on the cultural/racial grounds?

  20. #20
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    Personally I'm not against controlled immigration from China to Russia. But we should ask our Far East residents, because western Russians may have never encountered Chinese people apart from this Chinese salesman who became an Internet phenomenon in Russia because of his funny appearance and pronunciation:


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