Thread: Russophobia in media

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Lots of people speak of Hitler when referring to Germany of the 1930s, or Saddam Hussein when referring to Iraq of the end of the 20th century. It's a feature of the English speaking culture if you will - to make fun and parodies of obnoxious dictators. It's real fun, and it may begin to sound funny to you too - if you try understanding it a bit harder.

Last couple of years British and US media try really hard to paint Russia black. And Stalin is used for that too, somehow they managed to connect Stalin and modern Russia, completely removing the fact the he's Georgian and he ruled USSR not Russia.

Recent examples of blackpainting
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...n-song-contest
Topic says: "Sweden defeats Russia to grasp Eurovision song contest victory"
Defeats? That's a strange word for a song contest where 28 countries gathered together to entertain the world.
But it keeps getting better

Sure, Polina Gagarina had a nice song. Ish. And she genuinely cried, at the end. A Million Voices, yadda yadda. Niceish tune disguising toxic international hypocrisy, hurrah!

Polina even gets "boos" at the end. I mean, really?

A propaganda piece from last year
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ence-secretary

Putin could be as bad as Stalin, says former defence secretary

Senior Labour MP Bob Ainsworth warns that Russia is a bigger threat to world peace than Isis

ok, good to know what British MP thinks, IDK about rest of Britain but I don't hear disapproving voices.

The whole western propaganda thing is seriously wonky. And it's not just what they say but how they say it. It's always "Putin's Russia", "Putin's regime", "Putin's cronies", etc.
What has Russia done that's so bad anyway? Imo, Russia hasn't done anything that the US or Europe hasn't done or wouldn't do. Every sovereign nation has the right to defend itself, protect it's people, protect it's National interests, and manage it's own internal affairs. It's only warmongers that refuse to respect another nation's rights.

So what's the defense against being brainwashed? Imo, the best defense is to turn the words back at them. So just say "Obama's US", "Obama's regime", "Obama's cronies", etc. I mean Princeton University already proved that the US is ruled by Oligarchs so why not?

But it's totally embarrassing that our media is all filled up with those wonky phrases. And it's even more embarrassing when they try to mix politics with sports and entertainment. And hey, I'm not the only American that feels the way I do about Russia. So why are our thoughts missing in the media?
And now they are trying to convince people that Russians can't think without undesirable NGO's. Really?
Sorry, but no way I'll ever believe that the people who created the Bolshoi theatre, Aleksandr Pushkin, Fyodor Dostoevsky, the Vostok spacecraft with Yuri Gagarin, borscht, the RD-180 rocket engine, the Proton and Angara rockets, etc, and won the Battles of Borodino, Sevastopol, Berlin, etc, can't think.
But isn't that just another form of propaganda - to try to convince people that Russians can't think without help from foreign countries?

And it's also degrading to anyone that believes all the propaganda. It just proves that they can't make their own informed decisions. And it also attacks their honor.
Well, my honor says that if you have a friend you respect that friend. And that's what allies are - friends. I have friends that don't believe everything I believe and that's cool - they are still my friends. Imo, respect is the most important part of friendship.
So there's obviously something seriously wrong about the way our media and our politicians think.
That's why I agree with President Putin. Allies can only be friends on equal grounds and that needs to happen with Russia, the US, and Europe. The Russophobic propaganda needs to end. That kind of thinking can only lead to new wars and we have too many already.

Btw, Polina Gagarina's performance was excellent and so was the Tolmachevy Sisters last year. But mostly I just listen to bands like Nautilus Pompilius, B-2, DDT, and Semantic Hallucinations. Russophobes are missing a ton of really awesome sounds.

I want to thank you for giving sources for your examples of Russophobia in the media. I am a U.S. citizen who has asked on other sites for examples from other U.S. citizens when they write about Russophobia or how people in the U.S. only receive negative news about Russia. I ask because I have not seen only bad news about Russia in the U.S. press. What are they reading? It's outside my experience, so I want to know. I never get any answers. What am I to think? From experience, I have come to not take all comments on the internet as the truth if they contradict what I see and hear around me. If other citizens see things I don't, show me where to look!

I don't want a debate, I just have been taught to not except anything at 'face value.' I think it is similar to people responding to a person who is very religious talking about the existence of God: the religious person is often asked "what is your proof." In a similar way, I just want to see the sources of Western bias because I don't have time to read every newspaper or website based in Western media, especially as I am trying to read Russian newspapers and translating some of them is difficult for me

The point is: I appreciate you showing some source material.

As a side note, the use of the word "defeated" is often used in sports or competition here where I live: for example if Detroit's baseball team wins the a baseball competition and was competing against the Lansing team I would think nothing of reading the sentence "Detroit defeats Lansing in the ... series." The term is not always used in a military way of an actual defeat of an enemy: two teams competed with each other, one lost and one won because one team 'defeated' the other, it's a victory! It's a subtle difference but this is how some writers would use the word 'defeat' in this case. The word 'defeat' is more colorful, more expressive than writing "Hey, Detroit won."

However, in our present world I do see how the choice of wording was not good if the writer was using the word in a neutral way. Mary

Originally Posted by maryo

As a side note, the use of the word "defeated" is often used in sports or competition here where I live: for example if Detroit's baseball team wins the a baseball competition and was competing against the Lansing team I would think nothing of reading the sentence "Detroit defeats Lansing in the ... series." The term is not always used in a military way of an actual defeat of an enemy: two teams competed with each other, one lost and one won because one team 'defeated' the other, it's a victory! It's a subtle difference but this is how some writers would use the word 'defeat' in this case. The word 'defeat' is more colorful, more expressive than writing "Hey, Detroit won."

When two commands get together and compete the logical outcome is that one command might defeat the other one.
Eurovision had 28 contestants from different countries not 2 but somehow only Russia gets defeated. It's simply logical to conclude that it was Russia vs the rest of contestants, according to the author. Now the bigger question is, should Russians feel threatened by those 27 countries (let's not forget all the boos Polina has got) and are those countries hostile toward Russia? That's the message that the Guardian wanted to deliver to the readers and that's no more than propaganda.

Originally Posted by hddscan

Recent examples of blackpainting
Sweden defeats Russia to grasp Eurovision song contest victory | Television & radio | The Guardian
Topic says: "Sweden defeats Russia to grasp Eurovision song contest victory"
Defeats? That's a strange word for a song contest where 28 countries gathered together to entertain the world.

Fun fact: Russia actually beat Sweden by viewer votes. Italy came in first (366), followed by Russia (286) and then Sweden (279). Sweden "won" because of the jury votes.

Published here: https://eurovisiontimes.wordpress.co...he-televoting/
Based on the full data set of the results found here: http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results

Originally Posted by hddscan

When two commands get together and compete the logical outcome is that one command might defeat the other one.
Eurovision had 28 contestants from different countries not 2 but somehow only Russia gets defeated. It's simply logical to conclude that it was Russia vs the rest of contestants, according to the author. Now the bigger question is, should Russians feel threatened by those 27 countries (let's not forget all the boos Polina has got) and are those countries hostile toward Russia? That's the message that the Guardian wanted to deliver to the readers and that's no more than propaganda.

By the time Russia was "defeated", every other country except Sweden had already lost the contest. So, it was a rivalry of the two at that point, and obviously, one or another was to have "defeated" the other one.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

By the time Russia was "defeated", every other country except Sweden had already lost the contest. So, it was a rivalry of the two at that point, and obviously, one or another was to have "defeated" the other one.

By the time the article was published every country except Sweden was already "defeated", so your point of a particular timeframe is somewhat illogical. It would be more logical if it would be several articles before and if Sweden and Russian would only be two countries in the finals. More problems come when you look at the quote from the article in my first post, the quote shows hostility to Polina Gagarina, also author somehow was able to squeeze "toxic international hypocrisy" into the songs contest.

Originally Posted by hddscan

By the time the article was published every country except Sweden was already "defeated", so your point of a particular timeframe is somewhat illogical. It would be more logical if it would be several articles before and if Sweden and Russian would only be two countries in the finals. More problems come when you look at the quote from the article in my first post, the quote shows hostility to Polina Gagarina, also author somehow was able to squeeze "toxic international hypocrisy" into the songs contest.

So are you basically saying by this that the entire world is turning up against Russia, or you simply deny the writer's right to have his own opinion on a particular subject? Either way, further explanation would be quite interesting. =))

Originally Posted by maryo

..... I am a U.S. citizen who has asked on other sites for examples from other U.S. citizens when they write about Russophobia or how people in the U.S. only receive negative news about Russia..... I ask because I have not seen only bad news about Russia in the U.S. press. What are they reading?.... If other citizens see things I don't, show me where to look!....

And I wanna know what you're reading too. I haven't seen those positive news feeds in the mainstream American media. It would be really cool to read them.
My sources are:
1. The Washington Post
2. The New York Times
3. Forbes
4. Reuters
5. The Associated Press
6. The Los Angeles Times
7. CNN
8. Fox News (the worst)
9. Business Insider
10. The BBC - But their Russian articles were so weird, I stopped reading them.

Those are the ones I read the most. I'll give at least one example for each.

Originally Posted by maryo

.....I don't have time to read every newspaper or website based in Western media, especially as I am trying to read Russian newspapers and translating some of them is difficult for me.....

I have the time. I'm a speed reader. The brain can absorb information faster by simple word recognition and association.
The same thing applies when learning another language.
My Russian news sources are:
1. Rossiyskaya Gazeta
2. Komsomolskaya Pravda - Btw, it has a really cool section about growing veggies.
3. Krasnaya Zvezda
4. Moskovsky Komsomolets
5. Argumenty i Facty
6. Russia Today
7. Pravda
8. Sputnik International

If you hear and use words enough, you always remember them.

Originally Posted by maryo

.....As a side note, the use of the word "defeated" is often used in sports or competition here where I live.....

Well, "destroyed" would be the word to use... if you're hanging out at a local club. But Eurovision isn't a local dance club so no reason to tear it up, right?
So who invitied Brokncyde or Does It Offend You Yeah to the Eurovision finals... LOL! I mean I seriously doubt that it should get that skanky.
But yeah, there was booing in the crowd. I couldn't believe it... dead! 2 words - Totally rude! Варвар!

Okay, so I'm not perfect, right? And I've been on lock-down a lot at home but hey, I wouldn't even boo or use words like "defeated" at a formal social function.
And it was never a "fight" between Sweden and Russia. It was just a multi-cultural social function for audiophiles.
Imo, a cool headline woulda been "Sweden Owned Eurovision". That doesn't target other contestants and it totally is more "achievement" oriented.
Music isn't a conquest - well, unless you're all over metal, right?

EXAMPLES OF WESTERN MEDIA RUSSOPHOBIA:

1. The Washington Post - 21 May 2015

Rather than confirm Mr. Kerry’s wishful assertion that cooperation is possible, Mr. Putin’s followers are crowing about what they describe as an American climb-down. Having failed to change Russian policy with sanctions and isolation, they say, President Obama has accepted that he must court the Kremlin and concede its core demands. Russian officials and media pointedly noted that Mr. Kerry did not challenge the Russian annexation of Crimea — the signal achievement of Mr. Putin’s aggression — in the talks.

The U.S. Continues To Send The Wrong Message To Russia

2. The New York Times - 22 May 2015

But Mr. Putin has put so much pressure on Ukraine and the five other countries to back away from any shift toward the West that the European Union on Friday declared its Riga meeting a success simply because leaders had managed to stand still.

Russia Casts A Shadow Over European Meeting

3. Forbes Magazine - 7 January 2015

This year will be a tough one for Vladimir Putin as the Russian people come to better understand the huge social and economic costs of his Ukraine venture. Putin has violated his pledge of growth and prosperity. He has lost Ukraine and has turned Russia into a rogue state. The sanctions combined with low oil prices have created a perfect storm of declining living standards and double digit inflation that is draining Russia of its reserves. Russia now lacks the resources for a Novorossiya campaign (which the Russian people show little interest anyway). Putin has created the opportunity for a new Ukraine and for regime change at home. We must wonder, like President Obama does, whether this guy is smart after all.

Will 2015 Be A Turning Point For Putin And His Regime?

4. Reuters - Today

Germany protested to Russia on Monday over Moscow's refusal to let a conservative German lawmaker into the country, a decision the Foreign Ministry criticized as unacceptable, in the latest sign of East-West tensions over the Ukraine crisis.
Karl-Georg Wellmann, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats and head of the German-Ukraine parliamentary group, had called Russia a "warmonger" earlier this year for supporting separatist forces in Ukraine, which Moscow denies.
Wellmann, who has called for tougher sanctions against Russia, told Reuters he spent the whole of Sunday night in the transit section of a Moscow airport and flew home the next morning, having been told he was not allowed to enter the country until 2019. He said no reason was given.
He said that he had a diplomatic passport to enter Russia, and had planned to meet Russian and German embassy officials.
"I wasn't planning to meet any opposition leaders or demonstrators," he told Reuters. "Evidently I was stopped by certain powers."

Germany protests 'unacceptable' ejection of Merkel party MP from Moscow

And all Wellmann wanted to do was start a Color Revolution in Russia. How unfair! Now the Russian people will miss out on all that bloodshed and violence!
Btw, has anyone seen the massive list of Russians that are denied entry in European countries and the US?
But somehow it's wrong if it's Russia that does it......

5. The Associated Press - Today

The exercise is part of a series of Russian military maneuvers taking place amid tensions with the West over Russian actions in Ukraine. The current drills are preparation for even more massive Center-2015 maneuvers set for later this year.

Russia Launches Massive Air Force Exercise With 250 Aircraft

So the message here is that it's okay if the US launches military exercises in Korea amid the North-South tensions - But it's not okay if Russia has exercises in it's own country.

6. The Los Angeles Times - 2 May 2015

Still, hostile words emanating from Moscow, an escalation of Russian warplane intrusions into or near NATO airspace and incidents like the September abduction of an Estonian security official along the Russian border have eroded Latvians' confidence that the Western military bloc would protect them from the stealth intrusions and disinformation that Russia has used to destabilize Ukraine.

Latvia, With A Large Minority Of Russians, Worries About Putin's Goals

So when was this famous Russia-Latvia war? I totally did miss that. Also, I'm totally certain it was the Euromaidan that destabilized Ukraine, not Russia.

7. CNN - Today

At the center of Roscosmos' problems is the construction of the Vostochny Cosmodrome. The new space launch site in the eastern part of the country was originally set to open by the end of this year, and its first manned missions were planned for 2018.
But the project has suffered a series of setbacks because of funding problems and alleged corruption. Golikova, the audit chief, said construction costs have ballooned by 20%. Several criminal cases are under way over corruption allegations.
The cosmodrome is crucial for Russia's ability to launch rockets. The country still relies on the Soviet-era Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan for its space travel.

$1.8 Billion Disappears In Russian Space Program

This one is totally bizarre! It's the Russian Federation that kept the International Space Station manned and successful since it's conception, not the US or Europe.
Also, the US doesn't even have a working space program.
And btw, rockets are also launched from Plesetsk in Arkhangelsk. Baikonur is NOT Russia's only means for launching rockets.
So if a rocket crashes in the US then that's a mechanical issue. But if one fails in Russia then it's corruption? I totally do NOT get that... period!
All the article proves is that Russia IS fighting corruption.

8. Fox News - 26 April 2015

That Obama’s emails were obtained by Russian hackers in particular – presumed to be linked to the Russian government – caused the intrusion to be seen as so serious that officials met on a nearly daily basis for several weeks afterwards, The Times reported.
“It’s the Russian angle to this that’s particularly worrisome,” a senior US official told The Times.
While the White House is hit by daily cyber attacks, primarily from Russia and China, the hacking occurred at a time of renewed tension with Russia, particularly over the crisis in Ukraine and Russia's military patrols in Europe.

Russian Hackers Obtained Obama's Unclassified Emails, Report Says

So if the NSA listens to Merkel's private phone then it's "National Security". But if Russia does something similar then it's "hacking".
Does the phrase "double standard" have any meaning in Washington DC's life?

9. Business Insider - 12 November 2014

Back in 1939, Winston Churchill famously remarked that Russia was "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
For most people, his words ring true to this day.
Although Russia is the largest country in the world and has the eighth-largest GDP, little is widely known about the nation and its culture.

30 Crazy Things You Didn't Know About Russia

Churchill. The same dude that tried to get the US to nuke the USSR in a surprise attack... After the Russians defeated the Nazis in the Battle of Berlin.
Imo, Churchill was the riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. So maybe he was looking at a mirror when he said that.

And those are a lot friendlier than their news feeds last year. And they are considered to be the most successful and reputable western news services.
I refuse to read anything else from the BBC but you can find their propaganda by typing the search term "BBC on Russia".

If you need any more examples of Russophobia in the western media, just ask. I have a huge collection of links for all those sources.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Music isn't a conquest - well, unless you're all over metal, right?

I still remember how those humble Finnish guys pwned them all at Eurovision 2006. =)) I thought back then they had set a bar for the contest, which their followers would keep up with, but unfortunately, we all saw what followed next. xD Anyway, now if I watch it, I do expect some conquest and battle, or would you assume I would watch it coz I'm a great fan of that sort of music?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

So are you basically saying by this that the entire world is turning up against Russia

Not the entire world but some countries

Originally Posted by Eric C.

or you simply deny the writer's right to have his own opinion on a particular subject?

He's a journalist not a fiction writer. Journalists should not put their own opinions to news, they should report facts, otherwise it's not news but biased opinion or even propaganda, thank you for confirming that you think so too.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I still remember how those humble Finnish guys pwned them all at Eurovision 2006. =)) I thought back then they had set a bar for the contest, which their followers would keep up with, but unfortunately, we all saw what followed next. xD Anyway, now if I watch it, I do expect some conquest and battle, or would you assume I would watch it coz I'm a great fan of that sort of music?

LOL! No way! xD Epic cosplay, btw. (the Finnish band) But yeah, that bar fell. It's so too emo now.
Anyway, I'll watch Eurovision more if they'll back bands like this

Karl-Georg Wellmann, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats and head of the German-Ukraine parliamentary group, had called Russia a "warmonger" earlier this year for supporting separatist forces in Ukraine, which Moscow denies.
Wellmann, who has called for tougher sanctions against Russia, told Reuters he spent the whole of Sunday night in the transit section of a Moscow airport and flew home the next morning, having been told he was not allowed to enter the country until 2019. He said no reason was given.

Germany protests 'unacceptable' ejection of Merkel party MP from Moscow | Reuters

So, Russia hits back and it doesn't help the dialog.

This sort of "russians are the bad guys" thinking has been standard in America since the Cold War. Even if we mask it with jokes about vodka and bears, Americans' actually idea of Russia is scary.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

The whole western propaganda thing is seriously wonky. And it's not just what they say but how they say it. It's always "Putin's Russia", "Putin's regime", "Putin's cronies", etc.
What has Russia done that's so bad anyway? Imo, Russia hasn't done anything that the US or Europe hasn't done or wouldn't do. Every sovereign nation has the right to defend itself, protect it's people, protect it's National interests, and manage it's own internal affairs. It's only warmongers that refuse to respect another nation's rights.

So what's the defense against being brainwashed? Imo, the best defense is to turn the words back at them. So just say "Obama's US", "Obama's regime", "Obama's cronies", etc. I mean Princeton University already proved that the US is ruled by Oligarchs so why not?

But it's totally embarrassing that our media is all filled up with those wonky phrases. And it's even more embarrassing when they try to mix politics with sports and entertainment. And hey, I'm not the only American that feels the way I do about Russia. So why are our thoughts missing in the media?
And now they are trying to convince people that Russians can't think without undesirable NGO's. Really?
Sorry, but no way I'll ever believe that the people who created the Bolshoi theatre, Aleksandr Pushkin, Fyodor Dostoevsky, the Vostok spacecraft with Yuri Gagarin, borscht, the RD-180 rocket engine, the Proton and Angara rockets, etc, and won the Battles of Borodino, Sevastopol, Berlin, etc, can't think.
But isn't that just another form of propaganda - to try to convince people that Russians can't think without help from foreign countries?

And it's also degrading to anyone that believes all the propaganda. It just proves that they can't make their own informed decisions. And it also attacks their honor.
Well, my honor says that if you have a friend you respect that friend. And that's what allies are - friends. I have friends that don't believe everything I believe and that's cool - they are still my friends. Imo, respect is the most important part of friendship.
So there's obviously something seriously wrong about the way our media and our politicians think.
That's why I agree with President Putin. Allies can only be friends on equal grounds and that needs to happen with Russia, the US, and Europe. The Russophobic propaganda needs to end. That kind of thinking can only lead to new wars and we have too many already.

Btw, Polina Gagarina's performance was excellent and so was the Tolmachevy Sisters last year. But mostly I just listen to bands like Nautilus Pompilius, B-2, DDT, and Semantic Hallucinations. Russophobes are missing a ton of really awesome sounds.

Please do not ban me for this defense of Putin. You know who these people are who hate Putin so much? These are closet communists in the American government who hate Putin for his statement which divided the world between good and evil, Putin and his cohorts having been good: " There is no alternative to democratic capitalism"- Putin. True!

Originally Posted by xXHoax

This sort of "russians are the bad guys" thinking has been standard in America since the Cold War. Even if we mask it with jokes about vodka and bears, Americans' actually idea of Russia is scary.

Agreed, I think many people I have come across can't believe I lived in Russia for a month. Or even that I just went there in the first place. Its like it is taboo. Of course not all people are like that.

Of course, there are misfits. One reason why Putin has to rehash his image over and over again as moderate Left sympathizer despite his animosity with it because if not, the misfits should have been in power. Millions died under Josef Stalin and nobody, I repeat, nobody among Gennady's followers apologized. If you become poor, blame it on Putin despite you having been a violent drunkard. I am poor. I don't blame it on the capitalist. I blame it on myself. I did not study well. The stress you experience at university is only 10% of the stress you will experience in the workplace. A lot of people know this but still remain irresponsible procrastinating on their studies to drink and pick up girls in university like me. Do not eavesdrop on your fellow officemates. Behave responsibly on the workplace. Whatever their political opinions are not for communist fellow workers to mind and make them an object of harassment and provocation like workplaces in Canada. Those are not office matters.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/...E&ocid=sk2mdhp

Why do Leftists get fired in the workplace? It got nothing to do with political ideology. It got to do with economic sabotage. Read the above. Ohhh, plenty of businesses go down because of closet communist workers. Read the draft plan of Vladimir Lenin on company sabotage. Don't tell me that 'slow downs' are not part and parcel of economic sabotage. There are other venues like court tribunals or labour department to air your grievances. There are a lot of trade union lawyers. You do not have to slow down to reduce production. Common sense.

If you are not meant for the office, this I tell you, a lot of Arab carpenters here in Canada are multi-millionaires, setting up their own carpentry shops. If you know that you have poor lifestyle management, you should be aware you have and solve your money problems. Learn how to take hold of money so that you will not 'blame Putin for your misery'. Filipina market vendors can send their children to universities. So can you.

Originally Posted by dinlot

Of course, there are misfits. One reason why Putin has to rehash his image over and over again as moderate Left sympathizer despite his animosity with it because if not, the misfits should have been in power. Millions died under Josef Stalin and nobody, I repeat, nobody among Gennady's followers apologized. If you become poor, blame it on Putin despite you having been a violent drunkard. I am poor. I don't blame it on the capitalist. I blame it on myself. I did not study well. The stress you experience at university is only 10% of the stress you will experience in the workplace. A lot of people know this but still remain irresponsible procrastinating on their studies to drink and pick up girls in university like me. Do not eavesdrop on your fellow officemates. Behave responsibly on the workplace. Whatever their political opinions are not for communist fellow workers to mind and make them an object of harassment and provocation like workplaces in Canada. Those are not office matters.

Volkswagen Canada halts sales after emissions scandal

Why do Leftists get fired in the workplace? It got nothing to do with political ideology. It got to do with economic sabotage. Read the above. Ohhh, plenty of businesses go down because of closet communist workers. Read the draft plan of Vladimir Lenin on company sabotage. Don't tell me that 'slow downs' are not part and parcel of economic sabotage. There are other venues like court tribunals or labour department to air your grievances. There are a lot of trade union lawyers. You do not have to slow down to reduce production. Common sense.

If you are not meant for the office, this I tell you, a lot of Arab carpenters here in Canada are multi-millionaires, setting up their own carpentry shops. If you know that you have poor lifestyle management, you should be aware you have and solve your money problems. Learn how to take hold of money so that you will not 'blame Putin for your misery'. Filipina market vendors can send their children to universities. So can you.

What does all this have anything to do with the topic?

Deleted. L.

Originally Posted by dinlot

Deleted. L.

Dinlot is banned for three days for trolling and anti-Semitic posting.