Thread: Russian Orthodoxy

Many other people are also upset about the loss of tradition. I miss the candles, incense, Latin mass, and all of the Catholic expressions of faith and spirituality that I shared with my ancestors. But the Catholic church is a constantly changing church and even though some congregations try to return to former customs the church leadership ultimately runs the show and determines the direction the church will go in.

The priest that chrismated me into the Orthodox faith was raised Irish Catholic in America. He was a wonderful choice for a spiritual father because he also still loved the Catholic church. But the Catholic church no longer provided what we both needed and the Orthodox church offered a path to continue the spiritual life that we had both experienced in an earlier Catholocism.

Many members of both the Catholic and Protestant faiths have converted to Orthodoxy because they desire the strong customs and unchanging traditions.

however... there are some Roman churches that use the latin mass... in my diocese... this "trend" has spread... hopefully it will again replace what used to be... also... if you wanted "unchanging customs" you should have checked out a Greek Catholic church

Yes it's true that the Eastern Rite Catholics have more steadfast traditions,(and their priests can even marry in some countries!), but we still have the problematic question of the Pope's infallibility. And now that we know our darling crush, Father What-A-Waste, was really only interested in the alterboys........... Kinda makes me think I left just in the nick of time.

hmm... well no Catholic nor the Catholic church has said that her clergy is perfect... but an overestimation at the conferance of catholic bishops estimates 500 abusive priests... these abuses occured in the 60s and 70s. Now i know i cant convince you about the pope... but facts are facts when it comes to the scandal... people are blowing it out of proportion. when you take 500 out of the 500,000 priests worldwide... it isnt too big of a percentage now is it? But 500 priests are 500 to many... and all Byzantine Rite catholic priests can be married and then be ordained... they cant be ordained, and then get married. Either way you put it... people in the orthodox faith should still respect us and acknowledge there is only a "small crack" in between our two faiths. We are both apostolic... we acknowledge one anothers orders and bishops

... believe me... it has happened in EVERY denomination.. even in orthodoxy...you make think your Church is perfect... but the clergy isnt and some things like that have occured

One of the refreshing concepts of the Orthodox Church is that no man and no church is perfect or infallible. All humans are suseptable to sin and must strive constantly to avoid it. All churches can testify to every kind of sin being commited by their clergy. The Catholic Clergy's mistake was not just the sin, but that they followed orders from the top to cover it up and defend themselves at expense of the victims. We're not talking just a few isolated incidents here and there, we talking Church policy all the way from Rome. This is the sin that all Catholics and everyone else is upset about. It also has the Church in the hot seat legally.

kind of like an altar rail????
and guys stop arguing with each other.

I thought the altar rail and icon screen were just different versions of the same idea. But according to the book "Why Do Catholics Do That"? by Kevin Orlin Johnson PH.D., the Catholic church building is modeled after the Roman law court. A rectangular hall for the assembly with a raised platform at one end for the judge. The altar rail would approximate the railing in the courts that seperated the procedings from the spectators.

Originally Posted by JB

Russian and Greek Orthodox are the same faith. Saints Cyril and Methodius (the apostles to the Slavs), were sent by Constantinople to convert the Slavs in around 848. St. Cyril developed a written alphabet based on the Greek alphabet and institued the use of the Slavonic language for the liturgy.
Today both churches still use the same liturgy. Russian, Greek and English are used in each church according to what the parishioners speak. Our faith is the same, the only difference is that each church follows the cultural customs of it's ethnic group. (The Russian churches tend to be less Americanized than the Greek congregations)

The other diference is the calendar. Russians have the old calendar and we have changed some things. For example Greek Easter is in a diferrent period than Russian etc.

What do you mean that Greek church is Americanised? How can an orthodox church be Americanised? Can you explain further?

Originally Posted by zelenymal'chik

The Russian Orthodox church and Greek Orthodox church are extremely similar. This dates back to 1472 when Ivan III married the last heiress to the Byzantine throne (and no doubt the influential relationship between the Byzantine Empire and Russia existed previous to this period). From this, huge amounts of culture were integrated into Russia from the Byzantine Empire such as a majority of "Russian" names... Alexander, Yevgeny, Demitry, etc, all of these have Greek roots. When I lived in Greece as an exchange student our горничная who was from Russia was describing to me all the similarities she saw between Greek and Russian.
For instance in Greek the second person plural verbal conjugation is EXACTLY the same.

Russian: вы понимаете
English: you understand
Greek: eseis katalavainete

The second person singular verbal conjugation is also clearly similar to the Greek just with a little phonetic change. (The "ei" spelling is a Greek dypthong which is pronounced like Russian "и" )

Russian: ты понимаешь
English: you understand
Greek: esu katalavaneis

The language share a lot of grammatical similarities as well, and I wouldn't imagine either would pose much problems for either speaker. But I still find Russian much easier than Greek, maybe just cause I'm more passionat about it.

Have you also noticed the similarity in Greek and Latin 1st person?
I love = agapo / amo

I think this thread is as old as Orthodoxy .

Originally Posted by JB

I think this thread is as old as Orthodoxy .

Orthodoxy is not very old . It is older compared to Catholic or Protestant church but not very old.

And I am still waiting your anwser about 'Americanization'. That can be considered an insult by some. It is good to state something when you talk about it .

Since I "talked about it" 2 years ago I had to read the whole thread to figure out what you are talking about.
In America the Greek Churches have adapted to American customs.( My friends who have been to Greece tell me that the Church in Greece has not taken on these changes). Pews and organ music along with lack of head covering and "sexy" attire for women are just a few of the Americanizations that have caused a disapproving glance from the Russian Orthodox in America. But in all fairness the Russian churches in the USA are constantly reprimending their parishioners for a lax attitude towards behavior and attire, and some Russian churches already look far different than what you find in Russia.

Originally Posted by JB

Since I "talked about it" 2 years ago I had to read the whole thread to figure out what you are talking about.
In America the Greek Churches have adapted to American customs.( My friends who have been to Greece tell me that the Church in Greece has not taken on these changes). Pews and organ music along with lack of head covering and "sexy" attire for women are just a few of the Americanizations that have caused a disapproving glance from the Russian Orthodox in America. But in all fairness the Russian churches in the USA are constantly reprimending their parishioners for a lax attitude towards behavior and attire, and some Russian churches already look far different than what you find in Russia.

OK we are clear now, I was talking about Greek churches. Not American churches where 5th generation Greeks go, lol :P .

The Greek Orthodox Churches in America are filled with not only Greek Americans but fresh off the boat Greeks (who still live in Greece and are here on vacation or are recent immigrants). They all consider themselves to be just as much a Greek as anyone living in Greece.