Thread: Is Russia a democracy? Плюс то же о некоторых других странах

Redfox; thanks for the thorough run-down of public services and employment opportunities.

HEALTHCARE:
This issue is close to heart for me. I think decent healthcare is a citizen's right in a developed country.
I can see how you find it disturbing. Those hospital pictures were DISGUSTING. I remember seeing such pics in the 1990s and it killed my sympathy for socialism/communism and the countries involved, at the time. It was obvious that a lot of people simply hadn't been doing their jobs, for things to degrade so badly, and it was a really bad reflection on the whole society, for educated people to let things go that far. It's incomprehensible really. Can't see how a country can have a top notch space program, be a leading in multiple sports and sciences and not manage to run decent hospitals, and I still don't.

It's like Lampada said in a previous post: You can judge a society by how it treats the weakest members.

If that's the standard in the toilets, you have to wonder what the standard of surgery and other medical therapies are!

I really thought things had improved a lot, but it seems they have not!


EDUCATION:
Well, ruining education is the best way to ruin a country in a longer perspective, isn't it!? No wonder you are upset!

Again another thing that was probably decent in Soviet days, or how else could there be so many good scientists?
It's particularly disturbing to hear about bribes and corruption.

I guess for a person with a decent income, they could solve the problem by paying for private education, but you shouldn't have to! Here in the UK it's like this, and in the USA to a degree, as far as I can understand. And it creates a terrible class society with an elite being educated separately from scratch, and regular people's children getting a bad education in state schools.

Finally, POLICE, There has been some threads about that here, before you started. Corrupt and useless policemen etc.
Not paid enough? Or what's the problem. How can people feel safe, if they can't trust the police....?



I have to agree with Alex krsk though. Healthcare, police and education are not necessarily linked to democracy. Saudi Arabia has excellent healthcare for their citizens. That's very far from a democracy. Likewise Singapore ranks top 5 in the world in all these area, and that's not a democracy either.

I think Edinaya Rossia has had long enough to do something about corruption now though. And improve education and healthcare. They had well over a decade. If there is no improvement soon, then I think you need a change of government! I have no idea who could do a better job, but 15 years is long enough to turn things around, so that people can notice a difference.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Finally, POLICE, There has been some threads about that here, before you started. Corrupt and useless policemen etc.
Not paid enough?

That is not the question. The system works in the "negative selection" mode. If Putin is thief and all his ministers are thiefs, could they build fair system? So the system degrades, day by day. That movement may not be visible on close distance, but if we look 10 years back, we can clearly see the whole process. "Рыба гниёт с головы."
So all good cops either leaved police or turned into bad cops.

Police can be reformed only when the president actually decides to do that. For example, as Saakashvili did it in Georgia. He fired all the road police services entirely and created them anew by hiring persons who never served as policemen before.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I have to agree with Alex krsk though. Healthcare, police and education are not necessarily linked to democracy. Saudi Arabia has excellent healthcare for their citizens. That's very far from a democracy. Likewise Singapore ranks top 5 in the world in all these area, and that's not a democracy either.

...and they can kill their women for any ridiculous reason in Saudi Arabia too. Uh, thanks, that is not an option. I prefer to have both freedom and social services, not to sell one of them for another.

Russia is controlled by "the system of crooks and thieves". The only way to bring the country to worthy life is to destroy the system entirely and make sure it will never be able to arise. And the only way to do so in our circumstances is the democratic nationalistic revolution.

In Singapore, they built a fair state with some kind of dictatorship, and their results are very impressive. But that way does not match our mentality. In fact, Lee Kuan Yew created the whole new nation from fragments of different ethnic groups that lived in Singapore of that time. He is a great person, I think. But here in Russia we already have Russian nation. So we don't need any kind of dictators, but only our own will.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I think Edinaya Rossia has had long enough to do something about corruption now though. And improve education and healthcare. They had well over a decade. If there is no improvement soon, then I think you need a change of government! I have no idea who could do a better job, but 15 years is long enough to turn things around, so that people can notice a difference.

The fact is Edinaya Rossia was never intended to develop anything, but only to steal and lie. Too bad, it took too long time for us to understand that. The real resistance against the system of crooks began only 2 years ago, so now we have to go long way.

Originally Posted by RedFox

The only way to bring the country to worthy life is to destroy the system entirely and make sure it will never be able to arise.

Весь мир насилья мы разрушим до основанья а затем...

Было уже. Что было затем все знают

Originally Posted by RedFox

And the only way to do so in our circumstances is the democratic nationalistic revolution.

Национал-социалистическую революцию? А нет национал-демократическую... тогда ладно

Originally Posted by RedFox

But here in Russia we already have Russian nation.

This reminds me something.

Do you like beer, btw?

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Было уже. Что было затем все знают

Левых надо держать на пушечный выстрел от власти. А то они такого понастроят...

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

This reminds me something.

Тю! И чего же?

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Do you like beer, btw?

Раз в полгода.

Originally Posted by RedFox

Левых надо держать на пушечный выстрел от власти. А то они такого понастроят...

Среди правых сволочей не меньше. Вообще сволочи размазаны равномерно среди всех групп населения.

Originally Posted by Юрка

Среди правых сволочей не меньше. Вообще сволочи размазаны равномерно среди всех групп населения.

Дело не в сволочах, а в специфическом искажении восприятия, которое не позволяет левым управлять государством.

Originally Posted by RedFox

Дело не в сволочах, а в специфическом искажении восприятия, которое не позволяет левым управлять государством.

Левые нормально управляли, пока в их внуках не кончился революционный энтузиазм. Теперь эти внуки стали отличными правыми.
А порядочность позволяет компенсировать недостатки любого мировоззрения. У правых тоже есть искажения. Например, в 1930-ые годы в США был голод, а они уничтожали продукты, чтобы спасти рынок (а не людей). Они (а именно банки) отнимали у фермеров землю. Они сгоняли их на принудительные работы по строительству дорог (ГУЛАГ по-американски).

Originally Posted by Lampada

Inflaming statement = trolling

1. Мне кажется, что Вы используете термины, смысл которых не понимаете (троллинг).
2. Мне кажется, что Вы не стремитесь к тому, чтобы я понял ваши предупреждения (англ. язык).

Originally Posted by Юрка

Среди правых сволочей не меньше. Вообще сволочи размазаны равномерно среди всех групп населения.

Inflaming statement = trolling

Originally Posted by RedFox

The only way to bring the country to worthy life is to destroy the system entirely and make sure it will never be able to arise. And the only way to do so in our circumstances is the democratic nationalistic revolution.

(Дeleted. L.)У нас уже наломались, сломали, все просрали, что можно, на весь мир облажались, до сих пор обтекаем. (Deleted. L/) нам разрушений хватит - мы уже строим новое общество, чего граждане (Deleted. L.) предпочитают не замечать.
(Deleted. L.)считают, что лучшим для русского народа почему-то будет опять сломать (Deleted.L.) государство.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

мы уже строим новое общество

(Deleted.L.)

(Deleted. L.)

(Deleted.L.)

Извиняюсь, что ввязался в перепалку.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

(Дeleted. L.)У нас уже наломались, сломали, все просрали, что можно, на весь мир облажались, до сих пор обтекаем. (Deleted. L/) нам разрушений хватит - мы уже строим новое общество, чего граждане (Deleted. L.) предпочитают не замечать.
(Deleted. L.)считают, что лучшим для русского народа почему-то будет опять сломать (Deleted.L.) государство.

Как зачинатель перепалки с переходом на личности, получаешь предупреждение.

Originally Posted by RedFox

That is not the question. The system works in the "negative selection" mode. If Putin is thief and all his ministers are thiefs, could they build fair system? So the system degrades, day by day. That movement may not be visible on close distance, but if we look 10 years back, we can clearly see the whole process. "Рыба гниёт с головы."
So all good cops either leaved police or turned into bad cops.

Police can be reformed only when the president actually decides to do that. For example, as Saakashvili did it in Georgia. He fired all the road police services entirely and created them anew by hiring persons who never served as policemen before.



...and they can kill their women for any ridiculous reason in Saudi Arabia too. Uh, thanks, that is not an option. I prefer to have both freedom and social services, not to sell one of them for another.

Russia is controlled by "the system of crooks and thieves". The only way to bring the country to worthy life is to destroy the system entirely and make sure it will never be able to arise. And the only way to do so in our circumstances is the democratic nationalistic revolution.

In Singapore, they built a fair state with some kind of dictatorship, and their results are very impressive. But that way does not match our mentality. In fact, Lee Kuan Yew created the whole new nation from fragments of different ethnic groups that lived in Singapore of that time. He is a great person, I think. But here in Russia we already have Russian nation. So we don't need any kind of dictators, but only our own will.


The fact is Edinaya Rossia was never intended to develop anything, but only to steal and lie. Too bad, it took too long time for us to understand that. The real resistance against the system of crooks began only 2 years ago, so now we have to go long way.

I'm not arguing with you on this RedFox, you are much better placed to judge this than me.
However it seems like you ought to get politically involved in some party with a concrete program to achieve change. You obviously has strong feelings about this.

But whatever the fix is, it has to come from inside Russia, driven by Russians. Nobody else can solve your problems, or truly has your best interests at heart. Not the EU, not the USA and nobody else. Convincing a foreigner that things are crap in Russia doesn't change anything, apart from perhaps discouraging people from all things Russian. It's the Russians who have to want to change.

As for me, I like the culture and language of Russi, want to be able to visit there and feel safe, but apart from that, the politics of Russia is up to the Russians. I am neither going to jump on the Western bias about Russia, nor believe some spin doctor who would claim that it's a faultless country. I also prefer to look for positives and not come here and bring up every bad thing I ever heard about Russia.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I'm not arguing with you on this RedFox, you are much better placed to judge this than me.
However it seems like you ought to get politically involved in some party with a concrete program to achieve change. You obviously has strong feelings about this.

But whatever the fix is, it has to come from inside Russia, driven by Russians. Nobody else can solve your problems, or truly has your best interests at heart. Not the EU, not the USA and nobody else. Convincing a foreigner that things are crap in Russia doesn't change anything, apart from perhaps discouraging people from all things Russian. It's the Russians who have to want to change.

As for me, I like the culture and language of Russi, want to be able to visit there and feel safe, but apart from that, the politics of Russia is up to the Russians. I am neither going to jump on the Western bias about Russia, nor believe some spin doctor who would claim that it's a faultless country. I also prefer to look for positives and not come here and bring up every bad thing I ever heard about Russia.

Yeah, pretty much the same attitude you have about any other country. =)) Here comes a paradox - what if the Russians think it's not just up to them, and want somebody else to help them solve some of their problems?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Yeah, pretty much the same attitude you have about any other country. =)) Here comes a paradox - what if the Russians think it's not just up to them, and want somebody else to help them solve some of their problems?

That's exactly what happened in the 1990s. The USA (and Europe) sent in anyone from businessmen, corporations, missionaries, journalists, spies, fashion designers and human rights activists to teach the Russians how to runt their country, after communism. And Russia let them in. Even more so in other ex Soviet republics.
So to summarise: They have already tried that.

But maybe they didn't try hard enough last time, is that what you are saying, Eric?
Maybe Russia needs to be a colony of the USA, or perhaps even or the 51st state of the USA?
Maybe you could take on some of the US foreign debt as compensation - since Russia has hardly no debt compared to the USA.

And in return the USA could teach the Russians all about how to run a democratic, prosperous and peaceful country where everybody lives happily ever after...

How about it, Russians?

[That's enough time wasted by me on Eric's trolling - as provocative and silly as it is, it's not worth wasting time on]

Originally Posted by Eric C.

what if the Russians think it's not just up to them, and want somebody else to help them solve some of their problems?

Это вряд ли.

А вот украинцы, похоже, действительно верят, что EU обязан им помогать.

Originally Posted by Hanna

However it seems like you ought to get politically involved in some party with a concrete program to achieve change.

That "concrete program" as was cited above is called national-socialism. And those paries and programs are banned in all european countries including Russia.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

That "concrete program" as was cited above is called national-socialism. And those paries and programs are banned in all european countries including Russia.

Советую отучиться говорить за других. Полезный навык, в жизни пригодится.

Originally Posted by RedFox

Советую отучиться говорить за других. Полезный навык, в жизни пригодится.

Кому советуете, если мне, то это нарушение правил форума и безосновательно. Если всем, то совет весьма полезен.