Thread: Regarding Russian in the Baltic States

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Huh? The Russian-speaking people in Latvia constitute the minority. That saying you mentioned should actually work the other way around.

Minorities happen to become majorities, especially when treated like they never could.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Minorities happen to become majorities, especially when treated like they never could.

Well, that happens, but is this illegal or contradicts the EU agenda?

Originally Posted by Romik

Well, that happens, but is this illegal or contradicts the EU agenda?

I wasn't saying it's illegal, but I guess it's kind of not very good for the former majorities. Moreover, in certain areas acting in the way to become a majority IS illegal for minorities.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I wasn't saying it's illegal, but I guess it's kind of not very good for the former majorities. Moreover, in certain areas acting in the way to become a majority IS illegal for minorities.

For the EU it's ok and going on exactly that way.
You can't say Somalis in Sweden like "Guys, it's unfair, your birth rate is three times more than the natives', keep equality!"

Originally Posted by Romik

For the EU it's ok and going on exactly that way.
You can't say Somalis in Sweden like "Guys, it's unfair, your birth rate is three times more than the natives', keep equality!"

Well, despite the sorry state of public health care in Sweden, it actually manages to maintain one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world.
The Somalis don't use birth control and where they came from has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world.
The should adapt to the new circumstances, instead of continuing like they were still in Somalia. I think they should start wearing more European clothes as well. If they leave Africa because the situation there is bad, then they ought to try to change a bit to be more like the country they have moved to, in order to get a better life.

I'm Russian and I feel the same way to Moscow as normal Englishmen to London when it's flooded by foreign people with different culture.

And the same way latvians feel to Latvia when it was flooded by foreign people in Soviet times making Latvians almost minority in their own country...

Originally Posted by nulle

And the same way latvians feel to Latvia when it was flooded by foreign people in Soviet times making Latvians almost minority in their own country...

Was that comment really necessary? Remember we are here to help each other...
At some level you have to like Russian language or culture, or you wouldn't be at this forum. If I am wrong about that, then maybe a nationalistic Latvian forum would be better. I am not saying this because I think I am a perfect forum member myself. But I think we have had lots of discussions about everything that's been happening between Latvia and Russia/USSR and at some level this is a Russian forum after all, so let's be a bit polite.

Originally Posted by nulle

And the same way latvians feel to Latvia when it was flooded by foreign people in Soviet times making Latvians almost minority in their own country...

That were others times, there were strategic things, anyway you had to be occupied if not by Russia then it would be another one. And if you didn't happen to be a minor you would do the same thing.
You weren't annihilated, you had your state, your population grew. Now you are free and disappear ...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well, despite the sorry state of public health care in Sweden, it actually manages to maintain one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world.
The Somalis don't use birth control and where they came from has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world.

Yeah Sweden is good for them.

The should adapt to the new circumstances, instead of continuing like they were still in Somalia. I think they should start wearing more European clothes as well. If they leave Africa because the situation there is bad, then they ought to try to change a bit to be more like the country they have moved to, in order to get a better life.

This is wishful thinking but they don't break your laws wearing their clothes and carrying on their customs. They are desired but they don't have to adapt as you like.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Minorities happen to become majorities, especially when treated like they never could.

Would you be able to be more specific with: "when treated like they never could?" What does it mean?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Would you be able to be more specific with: "when treated like they never could?" What does it mean?

When the minorities get enough rights to bring them upon the majorities, and make them losers in their own game, mainly.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

When the minorities get enough rights to bring them upon the majorities, and make them losers in their own game, mainly.

Do you have an example from the real life you might be referring to? I mean, a political example at least somewhat similar to the situation in context.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Do you have an example from the real life you might be referring to? I mean, a political example at least somewhat similar to the situation in context.

It's been happening all around, just give it a good look. I'd avoid talking about particular cases to maintain political correctness.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Call me a racist if you want, but yes - I would happily switch 1 Somali for 5 Russians in my country because the Russians could fit and have a lot more in common with the rest of the population and could contribute more to the economy. In fact, there are quite a lot of Russians around, judging from how oftern I hear it spoken in Stockholm. We are all Europeans, I don't see a problem, it's the same as with the intra EU migration.

As for people getting apartments from the queue, yes - I would get one in 7 years with my queue current position..... While the immigrants jump straight to the front of the queue, particularly if they have more children than they can afford... My grandparents worked to build up this system which now benefits mostly immigrants.
Oh well!!!! Fortunately I can afford to buy a flat soon, if I stay here, but not everyone is so lucky.

As for what happened or not after the 2nd world war - it is not for me to say.

Personally I think that the Red Army should have withdrawn from the Baltic States, or held a referendum to check what people wanted. But as we all know, referendums were neither recommended by the ideology.... neither was it Stalin's style.... And all this was 65 years ago. Time to move on....

Yes, why can't you criticize your own government? Sweden and other 'EU' countries are just as bad as the Soviet and post-Soviet. In fact, the policies of countries like Sweden are destroying their own countries in order to profit via banks and special interest groups.

At least, the Baltic countries and now Russians are protesting. Swedes an other EU citizens sit on their hands and do nothing.

Personally, I think the citizens of the Baltic citizens should direct any complaint against both governments since both want that friction and division. But, they are similar so any hostility is pointless unless directed towards the Governments who want the conflict.

Of course I critisize my useless government!!
Just not in a Russian forum, and normally mostly to my countrymen....

Originally Posted by Hanna

Of course I critisize my useless government!!
Just not in a Russian forum, and normally mostly to my countrymen....

Hanna I thought in Sweden people are more able to influence on the policy. Why the society wouldn't elect those who will first of all care about their own people instead of sheltering every other?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

It's been happening all around, just give it a good look. I'd avoid talking about particular cases to maintain political correctness.

Oh, come on! In politics, unless you have a sound case beefed up with some good examples, you would be named a populist or a demagogue, agree? Instilling concerns without proper justification supported by some convincing precedents is essentially obscuring the reality and is called mystification. A very well-known and time-proven technique practiced by Shamanism. And we're talking about a very noticeable slice of Latvian population. So noticeable, that we can't even agree if they are a minority or a majority.

After all, what does it mean 'an official language?' That means that should a citizen request a government service in either of the official languages, the government is obliged by law to provide that service to him or her. That is all to it. It does not mean all schools have to switch to Russian and forget about Latvian. Below please find a partial list of countries which had adopted several official languages. Please, notice that in neither of those countries there's a concern of going back to the Soviet times:

Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic (several municipalities have official bilingualism: Czech and Polish)
Kosovo
Luxembourg (three official languages)
Malta
Cameroon
Chad
Burundi
Kenya
Rwanda

In fact, in my opinion, adoption of Russian as a second official language and subsequently granting a citizenship status to the Russian-speaking community in Latvia has NOTHING TO DO with going back to the Soviet times. Unless, of course, nulle would finally wake up and clearly explain otherwise.

Having said that, I can definitely recognize there are cultural wars going on in Latvia. Not resurrection of the Soviet times, but purely cultural debate. And using political means in a cultural debate, in my opinion, is at the very least a dishonest practice. It's more or less like saying: "Oh, your favourite book is more popular than mine, so I'm going to call the publisher and blackmail him, so he would stop publishing your favourite book." Does it make sense?