Protests in Syria

I'm amazed we're not talking about the protests in Syria. Not even a word. But, I think what happens there is very important primarily due to the fact that before the protests started, the majority supported Asad's power and there were no major negative economic impacts. But what's happening now? Thousands of killed. Syria has been expelled from the Arab League. The EU, UN, etc. condemned the use of violence against the protesters. However, unlike in Lybia, NATO forces will probably not be used as Asad threatened he would launch a massive missile-assault on Israel. (Б.Асад заявил — в случае нападения НАТО Сирия начнет бомбардировки Израиля :: ) Also, Asad promised that in case of military intervention Iran would attack NATO ships in Persian Gulf within 3 hours.

What do you think of that?

Американцы затеяли против Сирии необъявленную войну, но ещё не решились на открытую.

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Originally Posted by Marcus

Американцы затеяли против Сирии необъявленную войну, но ещё не решились на открытую.

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If that's true, then why was Syria expelled from the Arab League?

Also, in order to diversify the possible guesses, I would like to post here two diagrams that my Texas friend Gator sent to me:

1. File:Syria oil exports by destination country 2010.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. ImageShack

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If that's true, then why was Syria expelled from the Arab League?

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Потому что в большинстве стран Лиги сидят американские марионетки.

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Originally Posted by Marcus

Потому что в большинстве стран Лиги сидят американские марионетки.

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When you issue a blanket blaming statement like that, can I ask you for some support of your idea? Can you name those majority which constitute American puppets and represent US interests among the following countries:

Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

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Originally Posted by Marcus

Американцы затеяли против Сирии необъявленную войну, но ещё не решились на открытую.

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Really? Not all people would consider a war on a piece of shit that has already murdered over 5,000 of them, and goes over and over murdering new ones a war on themselves. Even less would decide to protect that piece of shit, while the majority would obviously help smash it all over the wall.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

I'm amazed we're not talking about the protests in Syria. Not even a word. But, I think what happens there is very important primarily due to the fact that before the protests started, the majority supported Asad's power and there were no major negative economic impacts. But what's happening now? Thousands of killed. Syria has been expelled from the Arab League. The EU, UN, etc. condemned the use of violence against the protesters. However, unlike in Lybia, NATO forces will probably not be used as Asad threatened he would launch a massive missile-assault on Israel. (Б.Асад заявил — в случае нападения НАТО Сирия начнет бомбардировки Израиля :: ) Also, Asad promised that in case of military intervention Iran would attack NATO ships in Persian Gulf within 3 hours.

What do you think of that?

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Some research on what to hit first so that the threats of the mental retard be technically impossible would be needed.

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

Some research on what to hit first so that the threats of the mental retard be technically impossible would be needed.

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Well, basically by saying what he said, Asad openly takes Israel the hostage. And if the situation gets closer to the possible external intervention, Israel could strike first, just out of fear. The sad consequences would follow. I think the situation is pretty serious. Unlike the earlier Ahmadiendjad's threats because there was no common border between Iran and Israel, but Syria can actually do that starting the WWIII.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, basically by saying what he said, Asad openly takes Israel the hostage. And if the situation gets closer to the possible external intervention, Israel could strike first, just out of fear. The sad consequences would follow. I think the situation is pretty serious. Unlike the earlier Ahmadiendjad's threats because there was no common border between Iran and Israel, but Syria can actually do that starting the WWIII.

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Only two or more developed countries that start fighting between themselves can start a WW. In the case we're talking about, this war will end in a few months by complete defeating one side.

Still, it would be worth to explore all the options how to do it quiet enough.

I don't like Syria because of its policy towards Israel, but for an Arab country it was surprisingly decent. It was not particularly brutal towards its citizens until the uprizings started. It was not a religious teocracy, the government there is Social democratic with a touch of islam. Not particularly sinister even if it isn't a democracy. But democracies don't exist in the middle east, so that's not very surprising.

However Syria has been on the US "roadmap" for regimes to topple.
(See the famous the famous Wesley Clark interview). So I guess we all knew it was only a matter of time.....

I don't think the human rights situation there has been worse than anywhere else in the Middle East, and Syria has been very decent towards all its neighbours with the exception of Israel.

They are taking refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan by the millions, and actually taking relatively well care of them. Nobody is starving, everyone is educated and gets some form of half decent healthcare.

Probably, the citizens had some really legit complaints, but are those really worth going into a civil war for....? I hope they can force the existing government to reform or force it to concede to elections.

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

Only two or more developed countries that start fighting between themselves can start a WW. In the case we're talking about, this war will end in a few months by complete defeating one side.

Still, it would be worth to explore all the options how to do it quiet enough.

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And no other side will intervene?

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

And no other side will intervene?

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You mean two or more sides with developed countries on each one fighting for interests in that poor country? I wouldn't really think that's possible. That will be a war of champions and losers.

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

You mean two or more sides with developed countries on each one fighting for interests in that poor country? I wouldn't really think that's possible. That will be a war of champions and losers.

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Hmm... I'm not sure about that. A couple of years back Israel Army fought a war with a paramilitary group Hezbollah in Lebanon. Neither of them won.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

If that's true, then why was Syria expelled from the Arab League?

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Because US told them to do so. ;)

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

When you issue a blanket blaming statement like that, can I ask you for some support of your idea? Can you name those majority which constitute American puppets and represent US interests among the following countries:

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Here's what I see in the Middle East.

There were several rather strong names in the Arab League - Abdallah, Mubarak, Gaddafi, Asad, Ahmadinejad, and, perhaps, Arafat.
They were treated with respect by all other leaders and there was some balance between them.
What I see is that King Abdallah at some point in the past wanted to be the only one there. Saudi Arabia depends on USA because it's where the money for oil is coming from and the economic ties between US and SA are rather strong.
Now we also have China who desperately tries to secure its huge investments in Africa and Middle East. China needs these resources and US wants to block it. China invested in Egypt, Libya, Iran and Syria. Now it was the time and the place. US removed Mubarak, Gaddafi, now it sponsors the revolt in Syria.
It also tried to stir things up in Iran, but they were suppressed. Saudi Arabia now holds the whole Arab League in its pocket and thus can apply some more pressure on Syria.
Still not convinced that the whole Middle Eastern scenario is about US and China?
Now what do you think of this PressTV - China must protect Iran even with WWIII? A cheery statement, isn't it?

What amazes me is that the things that took place in Egypt and Libya, and what's happening in Syria are explained by many apparently normal people as 'protests', 'a fight for freedom', 'human righs' e.t.c. Wake up, folks, that's pure b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t! US don't give a damn about 'innocent victims' if it doesn't concern their interests. US only makes war for profits, power and resources. Have you heard of protests in Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia itself? No? How strange, but protests were there too, there were arrests and even dead bodies. What goes on in Turkey with the Kurds more resembles a genocide, but no - these countries are 'ok'. Surprisingly, the lack of democracy and human rights is only observed in countries that try to maintain an independent policy and provide China with resources.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Because US told them to do so. ;)

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Have you had a chance to briefly look at the pictures my friend Gator sent?

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Now what do you think of this PressTV - China must protect Iran even with WWIII? A cheery statement, isn't it?

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I know. That's why Asad said what he said. A foreign military intervention in Syria will start the WWIII.

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What amazes me is that the things that took place in Egypt and Libya, and what's happening in Syria are explained by many apparently normal people as 'protests', 'a fight for freedom', 'human righs' e.t.c. Wake up, folks, that's pure b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t! US don't give a damn about 'innocent victims' if it doesn't concern their interests. US only makes war for profits, power and resources. Have you heard of protests in Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia itself? No? How strange, but protests were there too, there were arrests and even dead bodies. What goes on in Turkey with the Kurds more resembles a genocide, but no - these countries are 'ok'. Surprisingly, the lack of democracy and human rights is only observed in countries that try to maintain an independent policy and provide China with resources.

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But you have somehow managed to visit all these countries over the last few months, and now "know exactly what's going on" (c). =))

When you stop a serial killer, do your real end goals matter anything, or the very fact you stop him is self-evident and enough?

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

When you stop a serial killer, do your real end goals matter anything, or the very fact you stop him is self-evident and enough?

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Oh, rly? What about the case when you are a serial killer yourself?

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Oh, rly? What about the case when you are a serial killer yourself?

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You mean a serial killer of serial killers? ;)

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I don't like Syria because of its policy towards Israel

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What does it do to Israel? (Deleted. L.)

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Originally Posted by Marcus

What does it do to Israel?...

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What's wrong with your Google?

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

You mean a serial killer of serial killers? ;)

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No, just a serial killer who accidently killed another serial killer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0-aSgGweC0

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Originally Posted by Lampada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0-aSgGweC0

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The Russians shouldn't have blocked the resolution on Syria.

Браво! Настоящий рукопожатный сириец. Америца знает на кого ставить, опять вместо людей в цивильных костюмах посадят на трон фанатиков в халатах. Отдельное спасибо за миллионы убитых чеченцев.

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Originally Posted by BappaBa

Браво! Настоящий рукопожатный сириец. Америца знает на кого ставить, опять вместо людей в цивильных костюмах посадят на трон фанатиков в халатах. Отдельное спасибо за миллионы убитых чеченцев.

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You think when you put a suit on a fanatic/dictator, it makes him more sane? =))

The official Russian position on this seems pretty clear. I.e. leave them alone to sort out their differences. No meddling, no intervention, no invasion. I am totally with Russia on this.
Let's see if NATOcan manage to keep its hands to itself. I don't hold very high hopes!

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Originally Posted by Hanna

The official Russian position on this seems pretty clear. I.e. leave them alone to sort out their differences. No meddling, no intervention, no invasion. I am totally with Russia on this.

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Actually Russian position is not to leave them alone but to stop conflict on BOTH sides while other countries (except China) try to issue the resolution to support rebels.

These 'rebels' have got modern arms and are very well trained if they are capable of several month's fighting against a regular army. How is that?
The 'free' and 'independent' media maintains that Asad fights with his own citizens. If so, his soldiers must be totally incompetent.
Or, he fights with some well trained and armed mercenary force that is acting as 'Syrian freedom fighters'.
What 'truth' are you ready to believe in is up to you, but what concerns me - everything is crystal clear.

Syria is apparently on some hit list of countries whose regime they plan to take down or invade.

So Syria has been doomed since early 00s.

Watch this clip - really! You won't believe what you are hearing!

This is a REAL five star American General who lead the NATO operation in Kosovo, telling the real story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJ--Z3lvaQ

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

ABOUT GEN. WESLEY CLARK
"General Clark commanded Operation Allied Force in Kosovo War during his term as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) of NATO from 1997 to 2000.

During a 2007 interview with Democracy Now's Amy Goodman, General Wesley Clark (Retired) explains a story that began shortly after the 9/11 attacks. Clark reveals a 2001 USA war plan to invade Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran. By now (2011) this plan is almost completed.

Only Syria and Iran are not bombed yet but those 2 are targets for US and Israel strikes."

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Consider the status of Libya, Iraq etc...
And guess who's top of the hit list right now?
The two remaining countries from the list, from 2001!
Anyone who doubts this needs only turn on an American news channel and listen for a few minutes!

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN

(....) After obtaining his Master's degree in India he moved to neighboring Pakistan to work as a fundraiser for the anti-communist mujahideen during the 1980s Soviet war in Afghanistan.^[8] The Mujahideens were backed by the United States, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and Karzai was a secret contact for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) at the time.^[9] While Karzai remained in Pakistan during the Soviet intervention,^[10] his siblings emigrated to the United States.^[8]

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The Syrians can look forward to a "true democracy" where, they get to elect an expat CIA spy as their president, just like the Afghans.

And here is where you get to after 10 years of US occupation:

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Afghanistan is currently ranked as the second most corrupt country in the world by Transparency International.^[108] Furthermore, there is the issue of electoral fraud, which has reached such a level that Afghanistan's status as a democratic state is questionable.^[109][110] (....)Afghanistan supplies most of the world's opium

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Originally Posted by Ramil

These 'rebels' have got modern arms and are very well trained if they are capable of several month's fighting against a regular army. How is that?
The 'free' and 'independent' media maintains that Asad fights with his own citizens. If so, his soldiers must be totally incompetent.
Or, he fights with some well trained and armed mercenary force that is acting as 'Syrian freedom fighters'.
What 'truth' are you ready to believe in is up to you, but what concerns me - everything is crystal clear.

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Even if they're somewhat well-trained, does that make them mercenaries?

And why do you folks doubt THAT dictator SHOUD be taken down? He was given power by his Dad, without a fair election, he's responsible for around 10,000 deaths in the country over the last year, the soldiers that carry out his orders shoot down people, catch and torture them (including under age children). The Syrian people are all just fed up with him, it's obvious. But they can't do anything about it, they see what happens to protesting people...

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

Even if they're somewhat well-trained, does that make them mercenaries?

And why do you folks doubt THAT dictator SHOUD be taken down?

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Why Eric you don't care that your way to take down the dictator would cost hundred times more human lives in a couple of months than the number of deaths caused by the dictator during decades (even if we take your "numbers" of dictator's body count as real).

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

The Syrian people are all just fed up with him, it's obvious. But they can't do anything about it, they see what happens to protesting people...

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The Syrian people are all just fed up with shooting from either side. They just want to keep their lives. They just don't wont to be killed whatever some people outside Syria think that it is for the good of them.

The name of the person who should be in power in Syria doesn't matter. What matters is what to do to achieve some good for the Syrians. Shootings on the streets doesn't make any good to the Syrians.

Такого хама, как оппонент Мутузова, еще поискать надо. Он полностью дискредитирует себя.
Он мне напоминает Жорика Вартанова с СевКавТВ по манере разговора.

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

Even if they're somewhat well-trained, does that make them mercenaries?

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Yes, that does. Becaise a well-trained fighter fights only for money. Besides, I doubt any of these 'rebels' are in fact Syrians.

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

And why do you folks doubt THAT dictator SHOUD be taken down? He was given power by his Dad, without a fair election, he's responsible for around 10,000 deaths in the country over the last year

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10K? Why not a million? Or a billion? Why is he responsible? Do you have any proof?

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

the soldiers that carry out his orders shoot down people, catch and torture them (including under age children).

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They should eat them alive! I wonder what's stopping the media from telling that 'truth'? :lol:

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

The Syrian people are all just fed up with him, it's obvious.

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Do you know any Syrian who lives there willing to confirm your statement?

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

But they can't do anything about it, they see what happens to protesting people...

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'Protesting people' or 'foreign mercenaries'?