Thread: Prague's spring

Is it "this-little-revolution" in former CCCP states from year 1968 (circa 20.-21.08., i am not so sure) called in English Prague's spring, Pražsk

Yes. In russian it is called as Пражская весна (Prazshskaya Vesna) and Пражские события 1968 (Prague events of 196 and also ввод войск (ввод танков) в Чехословакию (the invasion in Czechoclovak Republic) as well.

The Czech oldman of noble mind - the one who led the excursion in the Staromestska Radnize in Prague for me and my brother - asked us such questions - he was truly polite but still greed to know what do we (two young Russians) think about the Soviet influention and the invasion of 1968.
Once when we stepped in the pub which was located in far from any touristic passes we suddenly (if not instantly) felt the chilly looks which led us behind our backs. The old men sitting inside were gazing at us after they noticed our Russian speeches. They stared when we ate until we stood up and went away. It was a kind of mmm...exotical feeling for us.
Once I had to hear the long talk between the Canadian (Geography teacher) and the Litvanian (ingeneer) which traveled with his wife across Greece. The Litvanian didn't realised neither I am Russian nor I can not to not listen to their conversation. I understood every word and many had the objective but disapproving character when he told about Soviet and Russians and Russian language.
I suppose that all small European countries which have ever undergone the power of Soviet iron influense are still offended deeply in their people hearts and minds. The old generation at least.

Originally Posted by Leof

Yes. In russian it is called as Пражская весна (Prazshskaya Vesna) and Пражские события 1968 (Prague events of 196 and also ввод войск (ввод танков) в Чехословакию (the invasion in Czechoclovak Republic) as well.

And how it is judged in Rosija?

Pros and cons of this invasion for Rosija?

I think it was important to hold Czechoslovakia as the part of CCCP because the CCCP was starting to be disintegrated after events from the year (circa) 1963 in Poland (Lech Walesa and Solidarnošč...) and in Hungary.

http://www.august68.web2001.cz/index.htm

People do rarely recall these events. Mostly in the TV documentary which blames (or just shows) about Soviet history. It's often recalled in connection with Russian/Soviet dissidents which frankly protested and were repressed by the government.
The view at these events belong to the generation of our parents.
I feel sorry for every bad and injury the Soviets made to such grate many of people all over the world. I do like (I mean I do the same) the Germans feel sorry for Hittler and faschists and nationalists evil which stroke Europe and took so many lives of innocent people. The only whom we must blame is the Communistic Party of the Soviet Union - it's summit to be correct.
NO Russian wished the invasion.

What mean pros and cons?

Originally Posted by Leof

Yes. In russian it is called as Пражская весна (Prazshskaya Vesna) and Пражские события 1968 (Prague events of 196 and also ввод войск (ввод танков) в Чехословакию (the invasion in Czechoclovak Republic) as well.

The Czech oldman of noble mind - the one who led the excursion in the Staromestska Radnize in Prague for me and my brother - asked us such questions - he was truly polite but still greed to know what do we (two young Russians) think about the Soviet influention and the invasion of 1968.
Once when we stepped in the pub which was located in far from any touristic passes we suddenly (if not instantly) felt the chilly looks which led us behind our backs. The old men sitting inside were gazing at us after they noticed our Russian speeches. They stared when we ate until we stood up and went away. It was a kind of mmm...exotical feeling for us.
Once I had to hear the long talk between the Canadian (Geography teacher) and the Litvanian (ingeneer) which traveled with his wife across Greece. The Litvanian didn't realised neither I am Russian nor I can not to not lesten to their conversation. I understood every word and many had the objective but disapproving character when he told about Soviet and Russians and Russian language.
I suppose that all small European countries which have ever undergone the power of Soviet iron influense are still offended deeply on their people hearts and minds. The old generation at least.

Leof, I am sorry instead of my whole nation, but in Soviet hegemony, Soviets were "the more equall from equalls" there. If somebody knew any Russian he was promoted in his job, etcetera, etcetera....

But there are too people who says: "Soviets? Good people at all! They offered us with vodka." :P

And next idea: in nowadays, when there are no social assurances in our so capitalistic country, people want Communistic party came back. Their preferences are increasing...slowly...but surely...

"Pros and cons" means: v

For every evil ever has happened is always guilty not the mass of people but the individual being who command/manage the others. Because "the mass" always think "the individual" is right. And finally: therefore there are "the individuals" they are showing the way for "the masses". And if someting happen only blame is on "the individual" head.

Originally Posted by Pejko

Leof, I am sorry instead of my whole nation, but in Soviet hegemony, Soviets were "the more equall from equalls" there. If somebody knew any Russian he was promoted in his job, etcetera, etcetera....

But there are too people who says: "Soviets? Good people at all! They offered us with vodka." :P

And next idea: in nowadays, when there are no social assurances in our so capitalistic country, people want Communistic party came back. Their preferences are increasing...slowly...but surely...

Oh, don't sorry for these men - it was uncomfortable but we learned something. It was good (not so good of them). I mean good or not, it was true. Then I realized in the first time what is like to be Russian - I mean it's very important to know the side view on yourself - as good as bad. Besides we met MUCH more people who liked us and were very very kind and heartful! I loved these people! And I understand everyone who is prejudised against Russians! Czechoslovaks and Prague suffered a lot. As one Czech boy said to the group of Americans standing at the top of the hill nearby the Stragov cloister: "There you see the other ugly and alike and faceless Soviet building. There you see one more...there is one more...and another one to the right...ugly ugly buildings" He blamed Russians dispite his age - I think it was a pose and not more.

the more equall from equalls - you will laugh but they are the very words of those Litvanian!

Know you what - me and my brother blamed Russians and were deeply ashamed noticing the Russian shops in Prague. God's Fish it was horribly! Tens of the glass windows with Babushkas (Matrioshki), fur hats with red stars and other shi+! I hated the thought I am Russian and was sad to meet such great many of alike Russian stores.

Once I stood in the other store and being hungry for cute souvenires I begun to chouse them from the glass window. After a long English dialogue I suddenly realized that the woman which owned the shop was Russian! I blushed so much and felt so stupid because I had to continue in English (I didn't want to open myself besides I realized that she noticed my evident accent too)! I went out ashamed, angry, disappointed, sad steamed and red and almost in a bad mood! I hated everyone Russian shopowner in Prague and hated myself for being Russian too!

However the souveniers I bought are my favourite!

Communistic times had some good features too, so someone has a nostalgy about it.

[quote=Pejko] Is it "this-little-revolution" in former CCCP states from year 1968 (circa 20.-21.08., i am not so sure) called in English Prague's spring, Pražsk

God's Fish and all Saints!
Vinnie thank you very much and I promise you your beer!!
O my! What a great many of mistakes I've done!

Originally Posted by Leof

O my! What a great many of mistakes I've done!

Look at mines... Kalinka_vinnie I am sending you jug of the best Slovakian beer... but the Slovak postal service... i do not know

Leof, the thing I wanted to say with this theme was: Some people will say, history is history and they won't be thinking about the bad incidents from the past. I am in this group> What has ever happened, happened. We can not do anything with this. But we can do great things with our future. But at this place are shown right these difficulties I have mentioned> I say it is OK, but the other one say it is not "so" OK.
History is a barrier between nations because there will still be people who will hate other people because the course of their common history. And history is nothing else than our "caste mark" called e.g. nationality.
Called e.g. culture customs - because some cultures are aggressive.
Called e.g. our national mentality.
Called e.g. race (and belonging racial prejudices)
....

This was why I was so sad the first time I met you there, Leof.
These things make me crye.
This tuth was I ment when I was talking about the Unification.

We have to lear from history but we can not live in and from the history.

I agree, on the whole!

Originally Posted by Leof

I agree, on the whole!

It is nice, but no one from us, from you and me, can not change the world.
I do not want to be still talking about this problem, but I....
I have nothing else to say, some days I want to be death....because this.
Ale dobro nikdy nezv

You cannot be so pessimist, hate doesn't bring nothing good. Let me tell ye something: we have had very "snoopy" neighbours, in Mexico, USA have invaded us in 1828, 1832, 1847, 1914, 1916, and several incursions that the government denies. Wake up! you do can change the world, smile .

Originally Posted by Pejko

For every evil ever has happened is always guilty not the mass of people but the individual being who command/manage the others. Because "the mass" always think "the individual" is right. And finally: therefore there are "the individuals" they are showing the way for "the masses". And if someting happen only blame is on "the individual" head.

imho the mass of people, or the common people, have a share in the overall guild too. If a bunch of people think that the individual in charg eof them is always right and that's what these people are guilty of, i.e. they're guilty of thinking their leader is always right, because the premise that someone, a person, a human being, can be always right is totally wrong.

Thus, imho, the Russians in general are guilty for the crimes committed by our regimes, including the putting down of the popular uprising in Prague in 1968. The fact that there were dissidents who actually had the guts to openly protest against it in Red Square is yet another testrimony to this guilt. Novodvorskyaya may be a nut case but I respect her for what she did in 1968.

Now there's a saying that people deserve the governments they have and imho there's more truth to that saying than most people, especially here in Russia, are willing to admit. Any government's rule is based on a social contract. A social contral is basically where the common people agree to do what their leaders tell them to. Take Josef Stalin for example, everybody likes to talk about what a powerful and evel dictator he was , but the truth is that all of his power was in the social contract that the common people implicitely entered into with him. In all his life Stalin himself probably never committed as single murder after he assumed power in hte early 1920's , then the question is who killed all those millions of dissidents in the 1930's? The obvious answer is we did, the people, all those multitudes of faceless, nameless executioners who simple did what they were told without giving it a second thought. And that's it, not giving it a second thought. Someone once said that stupidity is the laziness of the mind, and in this sense it is evil.
Now today, unfortunately a lot of the old things are beginning to happen all over again in Russia. the new/old United Russia party that holds the majority in our parlament is in fact a cross between the old communist party of the USSR and the NSDAP of the nazi Germany, they're now havility promoting patriotism which in my opinion is one of the most evil ideaologies the human race has ever come up wtih. Putin is building a verical of power which among other things, creates in the people the false sense of irresponsibility, so that the common folk once again can say to themselves "oh it's not us, it's not our responsibility what can we do, nothing". It's all totally evil and this whole mentality has to be broken whatever it takes.

You have written it nicely. I agree.

About the Prague

Just wanted to say Hi Pejko!