Thread: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Well this is related to Russia, since they're against it. I'm surprised nobody has started this topic yet. What's everybody's opinions? Also cast your vote!

I don't support this war, I don't support usa.

I hate the fact that the way the world is today, it is difficult to say you're against the war without been accused of being anti-american.

I like America very much, but I am completely behind Russia on this one. This war is a huge mistake. The outcome of this war isn't in doubt, but by starting this war, George Bush has probably started the biggest ever membership drive in Al Qaeda's history.

This is not a happy time....

Phil

It seems the left is only aware of the bad things that the war will result in. The war will result in some really nasty things, but you have to realize this: without a war, we would have a disaster

kinda with you on that one V

First of all, I would like to express a slightly different view, though one that is more common in Australia.

I do not support the USA's school yard bully tactics. What would happen if the rest of the world though that Geroge Bush was bad for his country and a threat to world peace (Which he is) and as such the rest of the world came in and attempted regime change??? I bet he wouldn't like that.

The UN weponds inspectors where doing there job. The UN was handling it (Admit idly the US pressuring Iraq had a lot to do with there co-operation).

Should the UN weponds inspectors feel they where being hampered, and then the US submitted another resolution to the UN saying that Iraq was in breach of the accord, and a vote was then taken on, and passed, then a group of UN backed countries could go in and force Iraq to disarm.

This war is as Illegal as Iraqs invasion of Kuwate, but, will the US, Australia, and the UK be held responsible for there illegal actions? I truly hope so.

This is a sad day for international co-operation, the United Nations, and world stability.

As an Australian I feel discrased that our leader is just as stupied and dumb as Americas, may be even more so because he is just following like a sheep.

Everyone is saying this war is bad but they are not saying what exactly is bad about this. Except for V.

Iraq terrorized Kuwate, so why should they be spared against US's attacks. They are terrorists (not speaking of the average citizens, who are victems). I know this war doesn't directly relate to 9/11, but that day opened Bush's eyes to terrorists in general, like Sadam. Knowone can trust Sadam, he has proven that. Bush is doing his duty as president. He wants the best for his country. War with Iraq brings all nations closer to peace in the long run, and even the people of Iraq. Bush is a strong president, this is what I think, and until someone can convince me otherwize, Im sticking to it.

You are 100% right russkayalove. Besides, I think if the victims of Saddam Hussein, the Kuwaiti people and the Iraqi people both want him gone and approve of US military action against Saddam Hussein, so what right does France and Germany and Russia have to say no? Saddam Hussain has literally killed millions of people, used weapons of mass destruction, caused irreparable environmental damage and broken several UN treaties. I think it is time he is either killed or brought to justice.

And do realize that there are 40 countries supporting this war, so don't refer to this is as "US action" anymore.

I want to see if you will have the same opinions against the war when all those archives are opened up revealing the attrocities committed by this despot.

I for one am getting sick of the word terrorist. It is now a term that the USA uses to describe any one it hates.

The USA is no more or less of a terrorist organization that Al quata or what ever the hell they call them selfs.

The USA does some pretty dam nasty stuff to people around the world where they have no business, the best example is the palistinians suffering at the hands of the jews, and it's the USA in the UN that continually use it's veto to protect israel against UN condemnation and action.

I'm not saying what Osama Bin Lardins mob did was right, What I'm trying to say is that it's not as clear cut as most of the American public are lead to bereave, and if citizen of the USA beleaves that there counties is moral and just, then they are only kidding them selfs.

Originally Posted by z80

I for one am getting sick of the word terrorist. It is now a term that the USA uses to describe any one it hates.

The USA is no more or less of a terrorist organization that Al quata or what ever the hell they call them selfs.

The USA does some pretty dam nasty stuff to people around the world where they have no business, the best example is the palistinians suffering at the hands of the jews, and it's the USA in the UN that continually use it's veto to protect israel against UN condemnation and action.

I'm not saying what Osama Bin Lardins mob did was right, What I'm trying to say is that it's not as clear cut as most of the American public are lead to bereave, and if citizen of the USA beleaves that there counties is moral and just, then they are only kidding them selfs.

Well I would agree with you on the Israel-Palestine issue. I am not against Jews or any religion but I feel that there is too much Jewish influence in American politics and this is causing them to turn a blind eye to the Palestineans. I don't want Israelis thrown out of Israel but at the same time, I would like to see the creation of a Palestinian state.

Do Russians (as a whole society) have an opinion on this?

So, the war began. Welcome to the age of new colonialism and oppression of poor countries by the rich ones! Back to the 19th century...

I'm not against the war because I support Saddam Hussein, I am against the war because the Bush/ Cheney/ Rumsfeld/ Ashcroft/ Perle et al neoconservative new world order movement scares the hell out of me.

it scares me too.
i cannot see any reason, why they started this war. Hussein did not do anything against the us. he did not attack them. of course he is a dictator, but iraquis have to get rid of him themselves. they have to make revolution or something.
the us always think, they are some kind of "world police". they should keep out of other countries businesses.
and by the way: this war is not supposed to be a help for the iraque people - it is about money and oil. it is supposed to make mister bush feel a bit more powerful.
and history teaches us, that the us always started unprovoked, useless wars....

You are 100% right russkayalove. Besides, I think if the victims of Saddam Hussein, the Kuwaiti people and the Iraqi people both want him gone and approve of US military action against Saddam Hussein, so what right does France and Germany and Russia have to say no?

Uh, France Germany and Russia have a right to say whatever they want. That is the purpose of the UN Security Council. It's not called the US Security Council.

Saddam Hussain has literally killed millions of people, used weapons of mass destruction, caused irreparable environmental damage and broken several UN treaties. I think it is time he is either killed or brought to justice.

Well, great. Here is a list of people who also should have been preemptively killed or brought to justice by your logic:

Pinochet in Chile
Armas in Guatemala
The Shah of Iran
Mobuto in Zaire
Velasco in Ecuador
Goulart in Brazil
Arosemana in Ecuador
Suharto in Indonesia
Papandreous in Greece
Torres in Bolivia

They executed, tortured, kidnapped, raped, and imprisoned more people than Saddam ever has. Know what the difference is? We put them there. Saddam used to be on that list, but then he bit the hand that fed him.

And do realize that there are 40 countries supporting this war, so don't refer to this is as "US action" anymore.

Yes, countries like Latvia and Poland. It is only the insignificant countries like China, Russia and Germany that are opposed to it. I'm sure Lithuania's contribution of five-dollar gift certificates to the war effort will be greatly appreciated. Why don't you research how many of these countries are going to be getting financial aid from the US as part of next year's budget?

I want to see if you will have the same opinions against the war when all those archives are opened up revealing the attrocities committed by this despot.

Who? Saddam or us? The government usually declassifies their atrocities every ten years or so, and this information can be found by the Freedom of Information Act. Except Reagan's White House papers. Bush successfully blocked their release a year or two ago for some reason (probably because of incriminating stuff against his daddy). Why don't you ask someone who had a family member killed by SAVAK or Mossad how much the US cares about installing peace-loving democracies in the Middle East.

Iraq terrorized Kuwate, so why should they be spared against US's attacks. They are terrorists (not speaking of the average citizens, who are victems). I know this war doesn't directly relate to 9/11, but that day opened Bush's eyes to terrorists in general, like Sadam. Knowone can trust Sadam, he has proven that. Bush is doing his duty as president. He wants the best for his country. War with Iraq brings all nations closer to peace in the long run, and even the people of Iraq.

Oh, were Bush's eyes closed when the White House blocked an FBI attempt to investigate the bin Laden family in early 2001? How come one month before 9/11 the US failed to secure an oil pipeline contract with the Taleban--a group that knowingly harbored al-Qaeda yet we kept sending billions of dollars to until late 2001?

Bush is a strong president, this is what I think, and until someone can convince me otherwize, Im sticking to it.

Strong? Give me a break. He can't even eat a pretzel and watch television at the same time.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/bush.htm

Edit: Wrote Mossadegh, meant Shah.

I support this war. No one in their right minds wants to just have a war. There is a time and place for everything. So the question should be, "Is now the time for war?"

I think the greatest potential enemy for any body(country) are the people who live inside it. Fear and unuinity will bring down a nation much faster than a small group of terrorists armed with a couple of dollars and razor blades. Terrorists know this, how come we don't? Do you know what it means to "be in terror?" They didn't give them the name for fun. Most of the damage of wars this century will come from what and how people chose to do after the fact.

I support the war and I support Russia. I hope people who are against this war will not be bitter about the USA and will keep our relations going strong. If people make stupid comments and their hearts become hardened then the greatest damage was never done by any terrorist cell, regime, or war. Instead, we caused the downfall of the world.

[Quote=Mike]

Strong? Give me a break. He can't even eat a pretzel and watch television at the same time.

Have you choked on food before? I guess not because that must make you a p**** too. I dont think I will comment anymore on that. I think the foolshness is as evident as the sun is bright.

[Quote=z80]

The USA is no more or less of a terrorist organization that Al quata or what ever the hell they call them selfs.

Thats right. We enjoy beating women, ethnic clensing, and starting holy wars.


[Quote=z80]

The UN weponds inspectors where doing there job. The UN was handling it

That's right. They were doing their job. They were taken around like lapdogs asked to sniff their noses in playgrounds, people's lunch boxes, and underwear. This is always an interesting comment that usually younger people make who have not been around long enough to have learned Saddam's trustworthiness and his character from history. But if you want to believe that Saddam was "born again" and decided to love his neighbor instead of cutting his tounge out then thats fine. The truth is the whole world knows he has weapons. I don't think this fact was ever in question. The real question to the world was, should we do anything about it? That was and always is the real question! The start of WWII was the same. Germany was told that it was not supposed to go over a certain number of military arms and it did. The world knew it and decided to do nothing about it. The United States as well did nothing and acted much to late. I can't help thinking the same with Iraq, that this was a ticking bomb about to go off. Oh and P.S. I am sure if we had weapons inspectors back then, they would have done just as well as today.


[Quote=V]

Well this is related to Russia, since they're against it. I'm surprised nobody has started this topic yet. What's everybody's opinions? Also cast your vote!

My opinion is that everyone was holding their breathe waiting for someone to(in my opinion) make a mistake and open the door to a hell. Instead of building eachother up and coming to rational conclusions we have all inheareted from the media bickering attitudes that will not build us up nor the world.

your friend,

Redchupacabra

Rahul, Im glad we can agree on some things , but you think there is too much Jewish influence in American government, and thats how you draw a conclusion about the Israel-Palestein situation? If there is any religous beleif that influences America's government, its definately not that of Jewish.

It is apparant that many feel as though American people are brainwashed by their government, but where do you get these ideas from, your government? I could just as easily say you are brainwashed as well. Many of us are here to learn about Russia, Right? So we ask questions, many of which are directed toward people who live there, or are from there. Why, because they would know first hand. America is extremely diverse, and we all have an opinion of our own about what our government is doing. People in other countries have a right to their opinion about America as well, but it is suprizing to me to see how many people think they know so much about this countries citizens. Who tells you these things? I honestly don't think anyone can really know better about the citizens of a country than a citizen himself. Some citizens here agree with what Bush is doing, yet many dont, and clearly voice their opion about it, which they have the right to do. The bottom line, the government is not the people, the people are not the government, and one person is not every person.

Here are my thoughts.

In this war USA are only invaders. Those one puprose is to gain access to oil and to take control over asiatic countries such as Saudi arabia, India, China and others. Territory of Iraq is very comfortable to locate arms and weapons of mass destruction (but this one is not needed) and by means of it they will be able to use it as argument while contacting with other countries. But it is not enough just to begin the war. There must be a reason. And USA thought up that reason. They said that it is a citadel of terrorism, that Saddam has weapon of mass destruction, that he kill many people. Because of it they decided to eliminate whole Iraq.
But who they are these terrorists? I suppose that it is little boys that have one "hobby"—to kill and explode people. Not for something, just for pleasure. But usually people want just to live and with no having any problems. A man kill a man only if he can get a big advantage. When do terrorists can get any advantages while killing somebody? Only if they recieve money for it (or when they avenge). I doubt that when I would come to USA and explode a building my bank account will grow up. Terrorism is not profitable for Asia. Terrorism was made by USA as argument against any country and only USA pay for it.
Saddam has weapon of mass destruction? And what is the problem? Russia do have it too, China do, England do. Why they do not offer to disarm Russia, China, England? How about USA?
If Saddam killes his citizens it is only internal problem of Iraq. It is not a deal of USA. Problems of any country can be solved only by the whole world (United Nations Organization). They can send there their people and to make control over citizens' security. But USA prefers not to listen to other countries. They begin war with no advices and only because of it I call them invaders.
But it was not a mistake. Bush knows what he wants. He needs country that will belong only to him, not to UN. This war is not only for oil. This war is for whole world power. And after that war there will be others. With North Korea, India, Pakistan, somebody else and then it will be Russia. In the end of 21 century we will see the world with small heap of reach fat people in the US government and big amount of poor muddy beggers working for their profit.

Originally Posted by Rahul

…I feel that there is too much Jewish influence in American politics…

Not only in USA, Rahul

Originally Posted by Tu-160

But who they are these terrorists? I suppose that it is little boys that have one "hobby"—to kill and explode people. Not for something, just for pleasure. But usually people want just to live and with no having any problems. A man kill a man only if he can get a big advantage. When do terrorists can get any advantages while killing somebody? Only if they recieve money for it (or when they avenge). I doubt that when I would come to USA and explode a building my bank account will grow up. Terrorism is not profitable for Asia.

But see your problem is your trying to reason insanity. There is nothing logical about terrorism or religious finaticisim. They don't share any profits. They are dead. It is all for an idea or cause. (Jihad). They have a belief that good things will happen to them. The problem with the approach is that we still haven't succesully crawled into the shoes of the teorririst himself, or maybe we would just rather not believe that people just like thousands of years ago declare holy wars and do the such. I am unsure though, if we honestly don't understand or we are affraid to come to grips that we may have to fight insanity itself.

Originally Posted by Tu-160

In this war USA are only invaders. Those one puprose is to gain access to oil and to take control over asiatic countries such as Saudi arabia, India, China and others.

Wow, that is a big list. Is that all? The USA bent on world domination? Well if thats how other countries percieve us I am quite scared. Besides if other countries had participated I am sure the USA would have incorporated everyone to the reconstruction plan. Why should we give i.e. France a say so in the reconstruction. They gave nothing towards it why should they recieve any? There are 35 some countries that helped the coalition. You forget UK and Spain will have a say so in this as well. People keep referring to U.S. this, U.S. that but there are 35 other countries that have given their help.

Originally Posted by Tu-160

Russia do have it too, China do, England do. Why they do not offer to disarm Russia, China, England? How about USA?

Isn't it wonderful that some of the countries you mentioned are Democratic governments that comply and work to lower nuclear arms. There is a potential evil for any type of thing you compare. Guns. Guns are great. You can use them for getting your family food, or you can use them for evil. There is always a potential good and evil for everything. Therefore, now you might see why we would be scared about Saddam having a nuclear weapon versus Russia. Infact the inventor of the thompson machine gun realized this as well.

Originally Posted by Tu-160

If Saddam killes his citizens it is only internal problem of Iraq. It is not a deal of USA. Problems of any country can be solved only by the whole world (United Nations Organization). They can send there their people and to make control over citizens' security. But USA prefers not to listen to other countries. They begin war with no advices and only because of it I call them invaders.

Well, but see you contradicted yourself. If it is only problems of Iraq then neither USA or UN should do anything. And don't forget that if USA didn't want to listen to other countries or do this without respect they would have never went to the U.N. in the first place.

Here is what I think. I think the U.N. if it can't follow up on its own decrees then its worthless. I believe it's a good humanitarian organization but it needs to be able to act. Infact I think that it needs reform and needs the ability to act. If it passes a law saying if Country A has X and uses X then Course of action B will be followed immediatly. But if they go in and vote on everything all over again just so it can be struck down there is a pointlessness problem.


Your friend,
Redchupacabra

P.S. I am thinking about working for the U.N. after colllege.

"Saddam has weapon of mass destruction? And what is the problem? Russia do have it too, China do, England do. Why they do not offer to disarm Russia, China, England? How about USA?"

To answer your question, Russia, China, and England do not terrorize other innocent countries, or harbor groups which do. Sadam is not innocent and cannot be trusted. People say the American government is the bully, but I always saw a bully as someone with more power who beats on an INNOCENT person whom of which is weaker. Everyone knows that Sadam is not innocent, he deserves whats come to him. I think America knows what a bully is, especially after 9/11 when innocent people were killed by them.