Thread: North Korea entered 'Nuclear club'. Iran's next?

Originally Posted by Тоби

I also dont believe that Russia is helping North Korea and Iran to get Nuclear weapons to attack the US.

I never said I believed Russia was selling fuel solely for the purpose of helping these countries attack the US. I was just pointing out the fact that they are selling fuel.

Originally Posted by Basil77

I think, every russian with a head on his shoulders, am not very happy to have radical muslim theocratic state like Iran, especially with such non-adequate leader, like Ahmadinijad, having A-bomb so close to my country borders.

Then why is your country selling them fuel?

Then why is your country selling them fuel?

To get the money of course! It's business!

Originally Posted by Basil77

To get the money of course! It's business!

That's more important than arming potentially dangerous countries with nukes? Or were you joking?

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Originally Posted by Basil77

To get the money of course! It's business!

That's more important than arming potentially dangerous countries with nukes? Or were you joking?

Our own country was a 'potentially dangerous country' during the whole its history. I was born in the 'Evil Empire' or so Reagan called USSR. We had nukes. So? We're a peace loving people, isn't everybody? We just want to live our own way. Doesn't everybody? Why would we deny that opportunity to others?

Originally Posted by Ramil

We just want to live our own way. Doesn't everybody? Why would we deny that opportunity to others?

Because Iran's "own way" involves nuking everyone and killing their own civilians. You really want to give them the tools to do that?

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Originally Posted by Ramil

We just want to live our own way. Doesn't everybody? Why would we deny that opportunity to others?

Because Iran's "own way" involves nuking everyone and killing their own civilians. You really want to give them the tools to do that?

According to Reagan we too wanted to nuke the whole word in the name of Lenin. I'm too much a realist to believe that bullsh|t.

P.S. You can't stop the progress, you can't keep the whole world in a stoneage just to feel safe.

Stopping the sale of nukes to Iran isn't "keeping the world in a stoneage". We don't have to take all of technology out of life for security reasons, but we can certainly eliminate large threats like nukes in the hands of Iran's radicals.

Hey Pakistan has nukes... I don

[quote=kalinka_vinnie]Hey Pakistan has nukes... I don

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Stopping the sale of nukes to Iran isn't "keeping the world in a stoneage". We don't have to take all of technology out of life for security reasons, but we can certainly eliminate large threats like nukes in the hands of Iran's radicals.

Iran wants nukes to defend itself against Israel. Israel has already violated Iran's borders in the past and bombed its territory. It woudn't be possible if Iran had nukes.

Originally Posted by Тоби

I think we are getting away from the post, I believe that certain countries should not have Nuke weapons, nuclear power? Sure but not weapons. The reason being is the are constantly threatening other countries.

USA and Israel are constantrly threatening other countries as well. They too shouldn't have nuclear arms, according to your logic.

Iran threatens Israel and the US as well as others almost every week these days.

And Israel threatens Iran almost every week too as well as the US.
Moreover Israel did not only threatened Iran but actually bombed it several times already. USA too has gone further than threats for several times already. So in this situation - the more countries will have nuclear weapons the more humbly USA will behave.

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This is why Russia and China are always opposing sanctions with Iran, North Korea and Iraq (before the war), they opposed the war too.

Russia invested billions in Iraq and USA wasted it. Whom or what do you think we were protecting?

Why, because Russia has contracts with Iraq, Iran and North Korea.

Why not? I've been to Iraq when I was a kid with my parents who worked there. It was a wonderful country and Baghdad was a very beautiful city before you bombed it.

I dont dispute any of that, I believe a country should try to develop and make money for their people so its not an issue.
But I find it hard to believe that Russia in general is ok with Iran or North Korea having Nukes.

China has, Pakistan has, India has, now Korea has. So what? USA too has nukes. Why should we trust you but don't trust them? USA is still the only country in history who actually used nuclear weapons on civilians.
Why shouln'd we trust other nations? Just because you say they shouldn't be trusted? More nukes = less USA in the region. USA should be kept beyond the Atlantic ocean and mind its own business.

The people that do agree with them having them tend to be ok with it as long as those countries are a threat to the US. Thats because those folks have the wrong idea about the US, and have never been to the US. In general when folks to come here, they are shocked, its not what they have read or had been taught etc..

I've been to US. Twice. I wasn't surprised. USA looked more or less as I had expected.

Thats why our minds are more open and I would love to visit all these countries. Until we all understand we live in one world, those opinions of the US will not change.

After the disintegration of USSR USA suffered a some kind of shock - the huge military budget and hordes of generals were in need of a new 'potential enemy' as cutting down military expenses led to an economic depression and closing of hundreds of thousands of jobs. International terrorism became a new enemy. It's a good candidate for it's being so undefined and ambiguous. They needed to inspire fear in American taxpayers in order to secure the tax revenues from them. 9/11 came very conveniently. If it weren't a *REAL* terrorist attack it should have been done by CIA - for I repeat - the time was picked 'perfectly' for it.

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Originally Posted by Basil77

To get the money of course! It's business!

That's more important than arming potentially dangerous countries with nukes? Or were you joking?

To sell nuclear fuel = arming?!! I told you, it can't be used to construct or research a nuke!!! Russia didn't arm mad nationalistic countries with nukes, as US did! (I mean Israel). I'v called it mad because resonable goverments don't kill thousands of innocent women and children for two pity privates, who were so stupid, that cross the border and were arrested by another country's border guard.

Originally Posted by Basil77

To sell nuclear fuel = arming?

No, I worded that wrong. What I meant to say was that Russia's sale of fuel to Iran isn't directly arming them, but it is a step in that direction. Don't go after the US for arming Israel, if your own country is taking the first step in doing the same to Iran.

Originally Posted by Тоби

Iran threatens Israel and the US as well as others almost every week these days.

Exactly. Remember August 22nd??

Originally Posted by Ramil

And Israel threatens Iran almost every week too as well as the US.
Moreover Israel did not only threatened Iran but actually bombed it several times already. USA too has gone further than threats for several times already. So in this situation - the more countries will have nuclear weapons the more humbly USA will behave.

I dont recall Israel ever threatening Iran with, Iran is an invalid state, they should all die. As for the bombing it was a defensive move by Israel, I am not condoning this however after YEARS of Iran supporting Hezzbolha and other terrorist organizations that had been killing in Israel for years, what would you do?

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Russia invested billions in Iraq and USA wasted it. Whom or what do you think we were protecting?

That is totally understandable and thats why I posted it, for the fact that those folks that may post that Russia does not agree with this or that, its the fact that they have invested billions and dont want to lose out on those agreements regardless of what happens to Iraq. So it was more informational.

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Why not? I've been to Iraq when I was a kid with my parents who worked there. It was a wonderful country and Baghdad was a very beautiful city before you bombed it.

They should not have attacked Kuwait, a defensiveless country. Iraq wanted all he OIL!
Its terrible what the WORLD would do to a country that picks on people.
Remember it was not just the US that did this, but the US gets alot of fame due to there advanced technologies.

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China has, Pakistan has, India has, now Korea has. So what? USA too has nukes. Why should we trust you but don't trust them? USA is still the only country in history who actually used nuclear weapons on civilians.
Why shouln'd we trust other nations? Just because you say they shouldn't be trusted? More nukes = less USA in the region. USA should be kept beyond the Atlantic ocean and mind its own business.

The US was the first of a few countries (Russia/Germany) to actually complete the development of this technology successfully.
We used it on Japan to aid in ending the war, in which it did. A war that up until the time Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the US was staying out.
Since then, the US has worked with many countries on the devistation of having Nuclear weapons in the wrong hands. Unfortunately due to countries that cannot protect the plans of Nuclear technology, they have and still can fall into the wrong hands. Also the US in a Country that believes all Countries/Religions have a right to live, unfortunately there are many folks out there that believe they are better then everyone else and want you dead. Its terrible.

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I've been to US. Twice. I wasn't surprised. USA looked more or less as I had expected.

From your comments on these posts, its my opinion that you just hate America and its people. You dont tend to look at what America does for other countries. Believe me, sometimes I say, heck with it, let other countries fight. But then we will be blamed for that too.

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After the disintegration of USSR USA suffered a some kind of shock - the huge military budget and hordes of generals were in need of a new 'potential enemy' as cutting down military expenses led to an economic depression and closing of hundreds of thousands of jobs. International terrorism became a new enemy. It's a good candidate for it's being so undefined and ambiguous. They needed to inspire fear in American taxpayers in order to secure the tax revenues from them. 9/11 came very conveniently. If it weren't a *REAL* terrorist attack it should have been done by CIA - for I repeat - the time was picked 'perfectly' for it.

I dont understand this and would like to see the facts, otherwise your just another guy who has some issues with the US and likes to come up with conspiracy theories. I lived in the 80s and 90s and dont recall any issues with America being in any type of considerable economic depression. So without facts I dont believe that this was the case. What hordes of generals you talking about? Facts, I would like to see facts.

With all that said, I just believe you really just dont like America for one reason or another. Dont get me wrong, I know there are some issues with America just like there are issues with all countries. However I believe in the American constitution and what it gives its people, and better yet, how the government backs it up.

I don't hate Americans. In fact I have many friends there. I hate the ideas American media puts into minds of people. I hate American system of values. I don't mind when people who accept it live there and feel happy. But I object when US exports it to other countries and insists that their views on this world are the only true ones. I hate it more when it's done by bombings. I hate it when US disguised as a "liberator" destroys countries economically without even a single shot. Just because 'national interests require it".
That's about my feelings about America. I hate the state but I love the country.

As for 'nuclear bomb plans' - they're not so big a secret. Principles involved are widely known and are not all that difficult to reproduce. But you need materials, you need a whole industry worth billions which simply can't be managed by a bunch of semi-literate islamic radicals. They don't have enough money for that (for one thing) and for a second one - even if they had they wouldn't behave as radical fanatics.

About facts - I didn't say that US economy suffered any major collapses during 80-90s. I only said that in order not to let that happen US began searching a new enemy who could 'pose a major threat' to the security of nation.
I don't think it's a secret to you that the military has a very strong lobby in the Congress and the Senate. And if you only look at the size of American military budjet (pick any year or several to see its growth) you would see that it had been growing since the 1991 when USSR ceased to exist. Though, a threat had been neutralized no one wanted to say goodbye to these amazing sums at their disposal. They needed the enemy to justify the expenses.

Originally Posted by Ramil

I hate the ideas American media puts into minds of people.

Have you ever listened to the American media before? Many of the ideas they put out are ones AGAINST the war in Iraq, and against war in general. They criticize the Bush administration for going to war and think he's neo-Hitler or something. I disagree with just about everything the media says, and I don't trust them at all. Seeing as you seem to disagree with the war in Iraq, I'm surprised you don't like what our media tells us.

And BTW, no one here ever liked the ideas Pravda put in people's minds in the USSR. However today in fact, many of our newspapers are written by ultraleft politicians who resemble communists, and I call my local newspaper (Baltimore Sun) the Baltimore Red Sun, because it's so overrun with far-left ideas. And did you know a lot of American liberals had secret ties to the Soviets? Al Gore's father was a communist with ties to the USSR. I'm surprised people like that haven't renamed the country "USSA" yet Unfortunately, that's where America is headed. Every superpower in history--Rome, Britain, USSR--has collapsed, and the US and Europe are on that same path.

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Have you ever listened to the American media before? Many of the ideas they put out are ones AGAINST the war in Iraq, and against war in general. They criticize the Bush administration for going to war and think he's neo-Hitler or something. I disagree with just about everything the media says, and I don't trust them at all. Seeing as you seem to disagree with the war in Iraq, I'm surprised you don't like what our media tells us.

I hardly ever hear of anything good anymore from the American Media, so yes Ramil, the American Media seems to be support by all countries except the USA. Because they sure do bash the military the president and everything else they could think of. So unless the American Media is showing you folks outside the country any different then I dont know what to tell you.

Since I dont live outside the US, I dont know what is portraid. But I have travelled and I hear/see the same things on foreign Media as I do in media here in the states. I dont see commercials coming from the US proposing our ideas etc.. so unless you mean via military action or agreements I dont understand.

We helped Israel, but we are not running the country.
We put a stop to Japan during WWII but we are not running there country.
We bombed Libya for there direct threats and bombings as well, We are not running their country either.
Same goes for many other countries, but if your going to threaten us, and we have to use military action, who should really pay? The American people? No, it comes with agreements that last for many years.
Oh by the way, for whatever reason, the US usually pays BILLIONS in rebuilding the countries it took military action on. Well to a point anyway.

i dont see how russians can have any sympathy for the japs when theygot attacked too. if u feel so bad for them then why dont you give them their islandsback?

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

i dont see how russians can have any sympathy for the japs when theygot attacked too. if u feel so bad for them then why dont you give them their islandsback?

Unless you are referring to the Lake Hassan incident, which happened some time before the war, I suggest you refresh your history knowledge