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Thread: Marxism Leninism

  1. #21
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Communism as a political and economical system is great! It ensures harmonious development of the society and individuals. Communism (unlike communists) eliminates classes, any kind of inequality, oppression and the state itself. It promotes common ownership of means of production and allows every member of the society to participate in decision making process in the political and economical spheres.
    It also eliminates the concept of private property but, nevertheless, it declares that all possible needs of an individual should be satisfied.
    In theory, communism is far more advantageous form of government than capitalism, socialism or any other -isms. The only drawback is that it doesn't work in reality. Well, presently, no. Maybe when the mankind progresses further and manages to produce enough food and energy for all it would be theoretically possible, but not now. Still, I think that sooner or later (it may take another several centuries though) we will reach the stage when communism is possible if the mankind doesn't destroy itself in the process.
    Take Obama and all his socialist friends please. I've lived my whole life in the USA and am into freedom. I do not want to live just above the poverty line. Good luck in your quest to find "Communism as a political and economical system is great! It ensures harmonious development of the society and individuals". People are born with different skill sets. No form of government will change this.
    Also, "It also eliminates the concept of private property but, nevertheless, it declares that all possible needs of an individual should be satisfied." I love my private property and I need freedom. Satisfy that with communism.



    Scott

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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Both Marx and Engels were pure theorists. Lenin was a first person, who tried to apply their theories to reality.
    Кр. -- сестр. тал.

  3. #23
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    first and last
    English Edition

    В обычных странах церковь отделена от государства, а в России - от Бога.

  4. #24
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    Re: Marxism Leninism



    "Marxism-Leninism is our banner"

    На стенде надпись: "Марксизм-ленинизм — наше знамя"

    За стендом — мой дом. На крыше дома надпись типа: "Строителям коммунизма слава" (что-то я точную формулировку никак не вспомню. На соседних домах было еще что-то в том же духе).

    Потом голубые ели подросли и закрыли Марксизм-ленинизм. Жалко, что елочки успели вырубить, ибо уже был самый конец Советской Власти.

    P.S. Оказывается это у Н.С.Хрущева была такая брошюра "Марксизм-ленинизм — наше знамя, наше боевое оружие." М., Госполитиздат, 1963, стр. 18.

  5. #25
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether
    Take Obama and all his socialist friends please. I've lived my whole life in the USA and am into freedom. I do not want to live just above the poverty line. Good luck in your quest to find "Communism as a political and economical system is great! It ensures harmonious development of the society and individuals". People are born with different skill sets. No form of government will change this.
    Also, "It also eliminates the concept of private property but, nevertheless, it declares that all possible needs of an individual should be satisfied." I love my private property and I need freedom. Satisfy that with communism.



    Scott
    Finally a sensible view!
    I would add that there is nothing noble about Communism even in it's most "benign" and purest from. The differences between individuals can never be fused and nor should be.

    In the USA the seeds on communism have been around since before WWI and ever working silently in US politics to the unobservant masses, but fulfilled now in the form Obama who's regime is arguably more communist than Putin's.
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

  6. #26
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether
    Take Obama and all his socialist friends please. I've lived my whole life in the USA and am into freedom. I do not want to live just above the poverty line. Good luck in your quest to find "Communism as a political and economical system is great! It ensures harmonious development of the society and individuals". People are born with different skill sets. No form of government will change this.
    Also, "It also eliminates the concept of private property but, nevertheless, it declares that all possible needs of an individual should be satisfied." I love my private property and I need freedom. Satisfy that with communism.



    Scott
    Finally a sensible view!
    I would add that there is nothing noble about Communism even in it's most "benign" and purest from. The differences between individuals can never be fused and nor should be.

    In the USA the seeds on communism have been around since before WWI and ever working silently in US politics to the unobservant masses, but fulfilled now in the form Obama who's regime is arguably more communist than Putin's.
    I recently read "The Naked Communist"

    http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Communist-W ... 1568493673

    Boy did it open my eyes as to what is happening!

    Scott

  7. #27
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether
    Take Obama and all his socialist friends please. I've lived my whole life in the USA and am into freedom. I do not want to live just above the poverty line. Good luck in your quest to find "Communism as a political and economical system is great! It ensures harmonious development of the society and individuals". People are born with different skill sets. No form of government will change this.
    Also, "It also eliminates the concept of private property but, nevertheless, it declares that all possible needs of an individual should be satisfied." I love my private property and I need freedom. Satisfy that with communism.

    Scott

    Well, read Marx first
    Let me describe communism the way I understand it in a more 'personal' way. (I repeat - communism is an utopia and one should regard it as such).
    1. Freedom - you're free. You can do whatever you want or do nothing (you don't have to). You can go everywhere or stay where you are. You are free. Nobody would force you to go to a factory and work. Theoretically you WILL want to work (or do something useful at least simply because people will be brought up with an instilled notion that they must be useful). Every communist theory stressed on the fact that in order to 'build' communism one would need a 'prepared' society. It's because of that I and others of my generation had to listen about communism theories from our earliest childhood (it all started at schools usually, sometimes earlier).
    2. Property - what do you want? Man need food, clothes and shelter. In order to 'build' communism one has to build a 'material base' first. In other words, you need a stockpile of stuff people may need in everyday life. To produce that stuff one needs resources, energy and (to a lesser degree - manpower). With automation introduced, the need for manpower would theoretically lessen to a point when one man could produce enough for hundred, thousand, or even million people. The same thing with food. If you want something - go take it - it's free. With such an approach people theoretically would stop experiencing the need of posession over something. Why? It's right there in case you need it. There will always be a man willing to produce or make something for the rest. Communism is based on this concept.

    Communism is possible when man controls huge amounts of energy (perhaps the scale of a star or more). Communism is a tale from the distant future.
    But it's a beautiful tale nevertheless.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  8. #28
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Умные люди говорят, что Маркс писал про коммунизм, имея перед глазами Германию, и что коммунизм, мог быть построен только в Германии, где народ приучен к порядку. В других странах национальные особенности неизбежно разваливают дело. Сознательности людям не хватает.

    Усилия Ленина в основном же касались того как победить капитализм, а не как потом построить коммунизм.

    Эта область теории до сих пор оказывается развита слабо. После Чучхе новых идей не появилось

  9. #29
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Take Obama and all his socialist friends please....
    I hate to say it, but you're asking for it! Only somebody of your nationality would make a comment this ignorant. (To say that Obama is socialist is like saying that that the pope is liberal.)

    There was no any communism in USSR, FYI.
    Yes. Most people who knew the FIRST THING about socialism would know this...
    (I love Olya's snappy one-liners!)

    Clearly ex-USSR citizens are better equipped to debate this than I am.. But I want to say something about it anyway! At least I have not been subjected to the same degree of lifelong lies and propaganda against Socialism as most English speakers have..

    To be honest, people who have not at least read a basic summary of Marx' works should NOT even attempt to debate these topics! That's like debating Christianity without having any knowledge of the Bible... (I have read Marx but it was quite a long time ago)

    The people who lived in Socialist countries were aware that material standards were higher in some Capitalist countries. Also, the old Socialist states put restrictions on peoples personal lives that they did not like. However, there are some genuinely nice aspects to Socialism too.

    Free universities, free healthcare, free culture and guaranteed housing and work for everyone and some aspects regarding what values young people are taught. I have enjoyed these benefits all my life and I would not want to change it for American-style "freedom".

    As I understand it (?) Russia was a feudal society which was poorer and more backwards than most European countries at the time of the Revolution. The USSR had a lot of work to do to "catch up" with other parts of Europe. Astonishing economic and social progress was achieved in a very short time-period (unfortunately at quite a high price in liberty and even human lives). But peasants were educated, got housing and had a steady income within only a few decades of the revolution.

    The USSR felt threatened by NATO etc and was spending FAR TOO MUCH on military equipment. If this had not been necessary, then that effort could have been spent on producing products and services for the population instead. The US also lead a 'propaganda' war against the USSR using every conceivable type of media to blackpaint "Communists" and glorify "Freedom" in all Western countries. As a result, many people seem to base their view of Marxism on Hollywood films, rather than facts or socialist litterature.

    During USSR days, as I have been taught, Russia also spent enormous sums helping various third-world countries (in Africa, Asia S. America) and republics in Central Asia and Caucasus. This money was transferred away from Russia and the European parts, to be invested in these poorer areas. Because of the USSR, these places have doctors, hospitals, heavy industry etc.

    Also there were some serious shortcomings (problems) with a planned economy and inflexible "5 year plans" that were used in USSR and Eastern Europe. A free capitalist market is more flexible and dynamic. As a result, production of goods in the USSR was not very efficient. It must have been very frustrating not to be able to find basic products in shops!

    The brutality of some USSR leaders probably did not help... Gulags, political trials etc is not going to make anybody support their government. Is that really what Marx would have wanted? (I don't know.) Once perestroika started I suppose it was an unstoppable avalanche.. However it seems to me that some parts of ex-USSR have lost out terribly - like Tadjikistan, and Chechnya which have experienced poverty and war for twenty years.

    It's a TRAGEDY that the property of the people of Russia has since been literally stolen by oligarchs, with the profits moved outside the country. What an ironic fate for the fruits of socialist labour... If I was Russian this would make me furious. How could this have been allowed?

    Another thing to bear in mind is: We don't know where Russia would be today if the revolution had never ocurred! A bigger version of France or Germany? Brazil? USA, but with even bigger class differences? It's hard to guess!

    Europeans who read this should also bear in mind that we might all be living in a Nazi world today... if it had not been for the USSR, which sacrificed more than any other nation to fight Nazism...

  10. #30
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    the USSR, which sacrificed more than any other nation to fight Nazism...
    To be honest, I thought that no one in Europe and all the more in other countries knew that and thought so... Thank you, Johanna.

    By the way, you know, a couple of years ago there was a Swede on this forum who said that nazism and communism are the same, and that the communists' victory over the fascist Germany was "ridiculous"... It was quite a long discussion, mostly in Russian, if I am not mistaken.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  11. #31
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    It's pretty rude of that guy to come on this forum and say things like that since some people might take offense. I can think of two explanations:

    1) Either he was younger than me (20s) and had watched too many Hollywood films when he grew up... (most likely). Before 1991 the view of the USSR had been nuanced in Sweden. After that suddenly everybody denied sympathies that they had previously.

    2) If his Russian was pretty good, then it's possible that he is/was a Navy officer (many of them learn fluent Russian because they "need" to listen to radio traffic on the Baltic Sea...) Such guys tend to be quite anti Communist (in the past) and anti-Russia (today).

    But I think the Germans and most people in Eastern Europe know very well who defeated Nazism on the Eastern front and that Stalingrad was the turningpoint of the war.



  12. #32
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by Wowik
    За стендом — мой дом. На крыше дома надпись типа: "Строителям коммунизма слава" (что-то я точную формулировку никак не вспомню. На соседних домах было еще что-то в том же духе).
    Вспоминай. =) "Слава великому советскому народу - сроителю коммунизма!" =)


  13. #33
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by BappaBa
    Quote Originally Posted by Wowik
    "Слава великому советскому народу - строителю коммунизма!"
    Вот спасибо, а то меня заклинило. Помню что слава, и что народ советский, и строитель коммунизма, но сразбегу не вспомнилось.

    Хуже с соседними домами - что там было на 302-м и 338-м? Что-то про КПСС... http://www.zelao50.ru/upload/iblock/c84 ... 42d5bb.jpg


    P.S. Смотрю на фотку, судя по теням, часов 7 вечера — "час пик" .

  14. #34
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    Take Obama and all his socialist friends please....
    I hate to say it, but you're asking for it! Only somebody of your nationality would make a comment this ignorant.

    [quote:1kclrpqv]You've got to be kidding me!



    (To say that Obama is socialist is like saying that that the pope is liberal.)

    Somebody who takes over car companies, spends billion on a "stimilus" package without anyone reading the bill (why didn't they just lower taxes?), and now wants to take over health care to me is well on the way to making the USA a socialist country. "Wikipedia defines socialism as "a social and economic system (or the political philosophy advocating such a system) in which the economic means of production are owned and controlled collectively by the people." From:

    http://www.fundamentalfinance.com/blogs ... talism.php

    To me it sure seems like Obama and his friends are into that. If a president of a "free" country was a closet socialist how would they turn their "free" country in a socialist one?

    I have only lived in the USA and am used to my freedom. Sure compared to other countries he would not be considered a socialist. To me he is.

    There was no any communism in USSR, FYI.
    Yes. Most people who knew the FIRST THING about socialism would know this...
    (I love Olya's snappy one-liners!)

    Clearly ex-USSR citizens are better equipped to debate this than I am.. But I want to say something about it anyway! At least I have not been subjected to the same degree of lifelong lies and propaganda against Socialism as most English speakers have..

    To be honest, people who have not at least read a basic summary of Marx' works should NOT even attempt to debate these topics! That's like debating Christianity without having any knowledge of the Bible... (I have read Marx but it was quite a long time ago)

    The people who lived in Socialist countries were aware that material standards were higher in some Capitalist countries. Also, the old Socialist states put restrictions on peoples personal lives that they did not like. However, there are some genuinely nice aspects to Socialism too.

    Free universities, free healthcare, free culture and guaranteed housing and work for everyone and some aspects regarding what values young people are taught. I have enjoyed these benefits all my life and I would not want to change it for American-style "freedom".

    I read Khrushchev remembers:

    http://www.amazon.com/Khrushchev-rememb ... 27&sr=8-20

    and he said something very similar to that. I am glad that you are happy with your form of government. Keep it please. I have to get used to the idea that there are people who want the government to do things for them that I think government should not be involved in. I do not want this to happen to my country:

    http://www.fa-ir.org/ai/end_of_democracy.htm

    Take Obama and his socialist friends please!!!



    As I understand it (?) Russia was a feudal society which was poorer and more backwards than most European countries at the time of the Revolution. The USSR had a lot of work to do to "catch up" with other parts of Europe. Astonishing economic and social progress was achieved in a very short time-period (unfortunately at quite a high price in liberty and even human lives). But peasants were educated, got housing and had a steady income within only a few decades of the revolution.

    The USSR felt threatened by NATO etc and was spending FAR TOO MUCH on military equipment. If this had not been necessary, then that effort could have been spent on producing products and services for the population instead. The US also lead a 'propaganda' war against the USSR using every conceivable type of media to blackpaint "Communists" and glorify "Freedom" in all Western countries.

    There was no communist propaganda against the USA?????? I have been told by older folks that lived there that they were shown in school films that showed American ghettos and it was presented that all the USA was like that.

    As a result, many people seem to base their view of Marxism on Hollywood films, rather than facts or socialist litterature.

    Please send a link with a good sites so this ignorant American can learn more about socialism.

    During USSR days, as I have been taught, Russia also spent enormous sums helping various third-world countries (in Africa, Asia S. America) and republics in Central Asia and Caucasus. This money was transferred away from Russia and the European parts, to be invested in these poorer areas. Because of the USSR, these places have doctors, hospitals, heavy industry etc.

    Also there were some serious shortcomings (problems) with a planned economy and inflexible "5 year plans" that were used in USSR and Eastern Europe. A free capitalist market is more flexible and dynamic. As a result, production of goods in the USSR was not very efficient. It must have been very frustrating not to be able to find basic products in shops!

    The brutality of some USSR leaders probably did not help... Gulags, political trials etc is not going to make anybody support their government. Is that really what Marx would have wanted? (I don't know.) Once perestroika started I suppose it was an unstoppable avalanche.. However it seems to me that some parts of ex-USSR have lost out terribly - like Tadjikistan, and Chechnya which have experienced poverty and war for twenty years.

    It's a TRAGEDY that the property of the people of Russia has since been literally stolen by oligarchs, with the profits moved outside the country. What an ironic fate for the fruits of socialist labour... If I was Russian this would make me furious. How could this have been allowed?

    Another thing to bear in mind is: We don't know where Russia would be today if the revolution had never ocurred! A bigger version of France or Germany? Brazil? USA, but with even bigger class differences? It's hard to guess!

    Europeans who read this should also bear in mind that we might all be living in a Nazi world today... if it had not been for the USSR, which sacrificed more than any other nation to fight Nazism...
    [/quote:1kclrpqv]
    We thank you from the other side of the ocean also!

  15. #35
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Oh I can't be fussed to respond to this even if I probably ought to...
    At least not right now.

    If only you were right and Obama really WAS a socialist...
    The world would become a nicer place, including, I am sure, America...

  16. #36
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Hello, I'm a newb here and this is my first post. First of all, I apologize for my terrible English. I didn't want to write anything in this thread but I think I have to, because there have been so many lies said here about socialism. I have read all these posts and I just can't believe what I'm seeing! I will just answer the most absurd post by Johanna.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    At least I have not been subjected to the same degree of lifelong lies and propaganda against Socialism as most English speakers have..
    I don't want to offend you but I am afraid you have been completely brainwashed by socialist propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    To be honest, [b]people who have not at least read a basic summary of Marx' works should NOT even attempt to debate these topics!
    I have read it but I think the whole discussion about socialism as it is presented in marxist literature is pointless. Let's talk about socialism in reality, not theory. And in reality, it is the most inhuman ideology in the history of mankind. Socialism impoverishes nations and demoralizes people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    The people who lived in Socialist countries were aware that material standards were higher in some Capitalist countries.
    In all capitalist countries, with no exception. Please name just one capitalist country at that time which had worse living conditions than any socialist country or stop writing such nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    Also, the old Socialist states put restrictions on peoples personal lives that they did not like. However, there are some genuinely nice aspects to Socialism too.

    Free universities, free healthcare, free culture and guaranteed housing and work for everyone and some aspects regarding what values young people are taught. I have enjoyed these benefits all my life and I would not want to change it for American-style "freedom".
    This quote explains why socialism is so popular - because people are naive and cannot think logically. The socialist propaganda is so successful, because it promises everything for free. One must be very naive to belive that something like free healthcare, free education, etc. exists. Doctors are paid for their work, aren't they? Teachers too, right? So please stop telling people that something is "free"!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    As I understand it (?) Russia was a feudal society which was poorer and more backwards than most European countries at the time of the Revolution. The USSR had a lot of work to do to "catch up" with other parts of Europe. Astonishing economic and social progress was achieved in a very short time-period (unfortunately at quite a high price in liberty and even human lives). But peasants were educated, got housing and had a steady income within only a few decades of the revolution.
    I don't even want to comment this. Please read this
    A
    Way of Life

    The Soviet regime’s proclaimed goal was to forge the classless, communist society that German political theorist Karl Marx had sketched in the 19th century. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) pledged in its 1961 program to attain full-fledged communism within a generation. The target proved unrealizable. CPSU theory classified the Soviet Union as a socialist society in which three main groups—the working class (proletariat), peasantry, and white-collar intelligentsia—coexisted harmoniously and selflessly laid the foundations of the coming communist utopia. In reality, social structure was more complicated than the theory allowed, and the ruling party worried more about perpetuating its power and privileges than about advancing popular well-being or preparing for the future.

    Many personal freedoms were drastically curtailed in the Soviet Union. In the Stalin era, employees needed the permission of management to change jobs and could face criminal prosecution for tardiness or absenteeism. These cruel penalties were abandoned in the 1950s; most other restrictions were not. Soviet citizens continued to be subject to surveillance and interference by the political police. They could join only associations approved by the CPSU. They could not set up businesses or sell their individual services, save for a few minor fields such as tutoring and baby-sitting. State-imposed regulations on personal mobility required residents to carry internal passports and to have them stamped by the police before changing locale; travel abroad was possible only with special authorization. Military service was compulsory and graduates from higher education had to accept work assignments, sometimes in undesirable locations, the first few years after acquiring their diplomas. Able-bodied adults who did not hold a job were condemned as “social parasites”, and evicted from the big cities.

    Average living conditions deteriorated between the 1917 revolution and Stalin’s death in 1953, depressed by social upheaval, warfare, and planners’ bias toward military and industrial spending. Progress at last came about under Khrushchev and Brezhnev in boosting the supply of foodstuffs, consumer goods, and housing. Even at that, the standard of living lagged far behind the affluent West. The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) estimated Soviet national output in 1991 to be about $9100 per capita, compared with $15,000 per capita in the United Kingdom and $21,800 in the United States. In the neglected consumer realm, Soviet backwardness was greater than overall figures might suggest. Some Western and Russian experts judged per capita purchasing power to be about one-quarter to one-third of the U.S. norm in the 1980s.

    In the housing realm, for example, 15 percent of families lived in a single room in 1989 and 47 percent in two rooms. Waiting times for government-funded apartments, which rented for tiny sums once allocated, were ten or more years long in some cities. Sixty-three percent of Soviet households did not have a telephone. Housing construction fell far short of demand after the mid-1970s, as only six or seven apartments were built for every ten new households formed. Home appliances and other consumer durables were widespread, yet quality was shabby, assortment limited, and repair facilities scarce. Chronic shortages forced people to spend hours in line at state stores and to hoard items, thereby aggravating the shortages. Disparities between official and black-market prices bred corruption among sales personnel.

    The regime’s egalitarian ideals often clashed with its desire to spur productivity and loyalty by differentiating the rewards people received. Inequality of income and social status was pervasive under Stalin and persevered afterward, despite efforts to improve the lot of the poorest segments of the population. Average earnings of the best-paid 10 percent of the labor force were more than three times those of the worst-paid 10 percent in 1976. Members of the CPSU apparatus, senior economic managers, and other favored groups enjoyed not only higher salaries but also more comfortable apartments, better recreational opportunities, access to luxury goods, and foreign travel.

    Public services to some degree offset low incomes. A point of pride was the government’s free provision of health care, education, and social-security benefits. Even here, though, problems of quality, availability, and equity simmered beneath the surface. Hospital treatment may have been without charge, but it was revealed in the 1980s that only every second hospital had an X-ray machine and only 20 percent of rural hospitals and clinics had hot running water. The sick often had to purchase therapy and medication through illegal gratuities. The Soviet elite, by contrast, received superior medical care in secret facilities closed to the masses. Underfunding of welfare programs, growing stress and alcohol consumption, and a worsening of environmental pollution caused a noticeable deterioration in health indicators in the late Soviet era. The infant mortality rate, which had plunged from 80.7 per 1000 live births in 1950 to 22.9 per 1000 in 1971, rose to 27.3 per 1000 in 1980, dropping somewhat to 25.4 per 1000 in 1987. Life expectancy for men, 66 years in the mid-1960s, sagged to 62 years by the early 1980s.
    http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761553017/Union_of_Soviet_Socialist_Republics.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    The USSR felt threatened by NATO etc and was spending FAR TOO MUCH on military equipment. If this had not been necessary, then that effort could have been spent on producing products and services for the population instead.
    United States has been spending much more on military and now it spends slightly more than all other countries taken together. Somehow it has't experienced such typical for socialist states problems like food shortages, etc. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    The US also lead a 'propaganda' war against the USSR using every conceivable type of media to blackpaint "Communists" and glorify "Freedom" in all Western countries. As a result, many people seem to base their view of Marxism on Hollywood films, rather than facts or socialist litterature.
    The communist propaganda was the only thing in which the Soviets succeeded. The difference between Soviet and Western propaganda was that there were plenty of socialist/communist media, political activists and organizations in the West, and in the USSR and other socialist countries everything was censored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    During USSR days, as I have been taught, Russia also spent enormous sums helping various third-world countries (in Africa, Asia S. America) and republics in Central Asia and Caucasus.
    USSR helped marxists revolutionaries to come to power in third-world countries and offered them military assistance. It was not about helping other nations. It was all part of the Soviet Union's global rivarly with the United States.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    Also there were some serious shortcomings (problems) with a planned economy and inflexible "5 year plans" that were used in USSR and Eastern Europe. A free capitalist market is more flexible and dynamic. As a result, production of goods in the USSR was not very efficient. It must have been very frustrating not to be able to find basic products in shops!
    At last something I can agree with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    The brutality of some USSR leaders probably did not help... Gulags, political trials etc is not going to make anybody support their government. Is that really what Marx would have wanted? (I don't know.) Once perestroika started I suppose it was an unstoppable avalanche.. However it seems to me that some parts of ex-USSR have lost out terribly - like Tadjikistan, and Chechnya which have experienced poverty and war for twenty years.
    "Some" USSR leaders? I'd say every one of them was a criminal. Poverty was experienced by all nations of socialist states and that is why people weren't allowed to travel to the West.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    Another thing to bear in mind is: We don't know where Russia would be today if the revolution had never ocurred! A bigger version of France or Germany? Brazil? USA, but with even bigger class differences? It's hard to guess!
    Probably Russia would be one of the richest countries in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    Europeans who read this should also bear in mind that we might all be living in a Nazi world today... if it had not been for the USSR, which sacrificed more than any other nation to fight Nazism...
    This is just unbelievable. How can you write something like that? The Third Reich and it's ALLY USSR (both socialist states, btw) were those countries which started WW2 by invading Poland from the West and from the East in September 1939, after they had signed an agreement in which they divided Eastern Europe between themselves. Then USSR continued it's aggression and invaded Finland. The Soviets hadn't fought Germans until June 1941 (2 years later!) when they were suddenly attacked. Half of Europe was liberated by Americans and the other half was enslaved by USSR, that's the truth.

    Yeah, socialism is great, it should definitely be restored in Eastern Europe. And they should rebuild the Berlin Wall to prevent Westerners escaping to the East!
    How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. -- Ronald Reagan

  17. #37
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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazovian
    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    To be honest, people who have not at least read a basic summary of Marx' works should NOT even attempt to debate these topics!I have read it but I think the whole discussion about socialism as it is presented in marxist literature is pointless.
    Let's talk about socialism in reality, not theory. And in reality, it is the most inhuman ideology in the history of mankind. Socialism impoverishes nations and demoralizes people.
    Do you know many psychoanalysts were admitting that in the USSR neuroses were found rarer than in the Europe? How can it be, if “socialism demoralizes people”? I don’t want to go deep into the psychological sources of this fact, but I should admit, socialism has a powerful “motherly myth”, which grant people a felling of safety. So, older generation in Russian is so naive now, like childes. They are not adapted to cruel capitalistic life with such idea like “a competitive activity”, becouse they "grown up" in a paradise and a fairy land, where milk rivers were flowing.

    Many personal freedoms were drastically curtailed in the Soviet Union.
    That’s propaganda. This method is called “substitution by other idea”. Capitalism is a form of property, but not a democracy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    Free universities, free healthcare, free culture and guaranteed housing and work for everyone and some aspects regarding what values young people are taught. I have enjoyed these benefits all my life and I would not want to change it for American-style "freedom".
    This quote explains why socialism is so popular - because people are naive and cannot think logically. The socialist propaganda is so successful, because it promises everything for free. One must be very naive to belive that something like free healthcare, free education, etc. exists. Doctors are paid for their work, aren't they? Teachers too, right? So please stop telling people that something is "free"!!!
    Do you mean you can take a free operation, even if it’s VERY expensive?

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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by Звездочёт
    Many personal freedoms were drastically curtailed in the Soviet Union.
    That’s propaganda. This method is called “substitution by other idea”. Capitalism is a form of property, but not a democracy!
    Also, the notion of a "personal freedom" is vaguely defined.

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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    private property is a form of personal freedom.
    English Edition

    В обычных странах церковь отделена от государства, а в России - от Бога.

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    Re: Marxism Leninism

    Quote Originally Posted by mishau_
    private property is a form of personal freedom.
    Or so the capitalists say
    Aside from that, people in the capitalist countries have little or no freedom at all. Even the private property is burdened with interest. And more likely, your property belongs to banks, not you. You simply have a right to keep it, maintain it for a certain price.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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