Thread: looks like Bush got in again for another four years....

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

well, they were 16 /17.

I missed the vote by 1 month. I don't turn 18 untill december. Blast. It's ok, my state went for kerry anyways. W00t go state.

Maybe the internet should have an age requirment, since, there are obviosuly parts you havn't figure out how to use.

Ouch, I don't speak French, so correct me if I am wrong someone, but I think that the appropriate reply is "Touche".

Mike, the question is whose scientist do we believe? !00 years of records does not prove anything. I know you're smart enough to know that the Earth goes through cycles. Is the increase man made ? Most main stream scientists say yes. I dont trust the mainstream and just because there is a majority does not mean they are right . I am sure that you will agree to that given the out come of this election ( from your point of view). I prefer to dig a little for the truth and I have no idea what the LP 's position on this is and dont care. I have nothing at stake in this. If I find out that I am wrong about something I will gladly take the new position, even if it means taking your position.

This is why I like Russians, they get to the point of things. This is from a conference on Kyoto in Moscow.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15556

This an article written by scientist who does not think global warming is a concern. She is a senior scientist at the Marsall Institute. It is well written but at times complicated. Now don't freak out because it was on the Herritage Foundation site.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Energy ... /HL758.cfm

Hmmm, who can explain me all these peculiarities of American electoral system?
As I can understand, the voting system is completely state-based, or something alike? And actual votes just do not mean much?

The States vote for the president. There are 50 states. Each state is assigned a certain number, the numbers vary from state to state. The candiates tally the numbers of the states they win. He who ends up with the biggest number wins.
Well thats my take on it anyway.

My official prediction: JEB BUSH 2008!!!

P.S. Just because Bush is a Republican doesn't mean he is a bad president. I urge y'all to think of something he personally has done wrong.

Originally Posted by BlackMage

P.S. Just because Bush is a Republican doesn't mean he is a bad president. I urge y'all to think of something he personally has done wrong.

Oh, I have nothing against Republicans. Some of the finer American politicians have been and are Republicans. Bush, however, is not one of them. He's not even a true conservative. A true conservative certainly would never have pushed for the Patriot Act.

As for something that he "personally" has done wrong, as I said, his actions certainly require the complicity of the rest of the government. But he does claim credit for No Child Left Behind, which is an utter bombastic bureaucratic nonsense bill. It's done nothing useful for the American public school system but create a lot of paperwork. And the idea of retracting funding from failing schools is RIDICULOUS. Many failing school are in low property value areas where schools are funded by property tax, so they're already underfunded. I don't know how you're supposed to train and retain decent teachers and staff, let alone obtain the necessary materials and supplies, on such a budget. So there's something he's unequivocally wrong about.

I was worried about Bush before he even had the Republican nomination back in 1999 when he sent a memo to congress inferring that it was already assumed that he was to be the party candidate for preseident. I found that a little scary. You are right, he is not that good of a conservative but for me, he has turned out better than I thought he would. I do not know enough about the Patriot Act but would like to.
Can someone direct me to information on it where I can learn about the "rights" issues that this Act has been reported to take away?

I doubt there are even any lawyers who could explain all the ramifications to you, which in itself should be at least slightly worrying. The whole thing is basically unreadable without reference to thousands of other pre-existing laws

Here's a radom extract:

SEC. 204. CLARIFICATION OF INTELLIGENCE EXCEPTIONS FROM LIMITATIONS ON INTERCEPTION AND DISCLOSURE OF WIRE, ORAL, AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS.
Section 2511(2)(f) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by striking `this chapter or chapter 121' and inserting `this chapter or chapter 121 or 206 of this title'; and

(2) by striking `wire and oral' and inserting `wire, oral, and electronic'.

The whole Act is like that.

Have a look: The USAPATRIOT Act

So you're left to rely on the good word of those who claim to have read and digested it, or those who wrote it.

I sure am glad its not my problem.

Originally Posted by BlackMage

My official prediction: JEB BUSH 2008!!!

P.S. Just because Bush is a Republican doesn't mean he is a bad president. I urge y'all to think of something he personally has done wrong.

He was caught for drinking and driving. I know it probably doesn't matter what he was like as a youngfeller, as he is a middle aged man now, but you asked, Lindsey.
By the way, do you spell your name as Lindsey or Lindsay? Because it is so appropriate (to my mind anyway) to call people by their right names.

A)I didn't ask. BlackMage asked.
B)Lindsay.

Джеб Буш!
Помоги меня!

Assistance-rendering verb. Supply dative. 'Помоги мне!'

Originally Posted by joysof

Assistance-rendering verb. Supply dative. 'Помоги мне!'

да. Я помню теперь. Спасибо. Я написала другое слово (sorry, don't know the Russian word for "case ending". Like I said, I know my cases but sometimes put in the wrong endings.)

Джеб Буш!

Помогите мне!

Я переписала слова.

Originally Posted by DDT

Mike, the question is whose scientist do we believe? !00 years of records does not prove anything. I know you're smart enough to know that the Earth goes through cycles. Is the increase man made ? Most main stream scientists say yes. I dont trust the mainstream and just because there is a majority does not mean they are right . I am sure that you will agree to that given the out come of this election ( from your point of view). I prefer to dig a little for the truth and I have no idea what the LP 's position on this is and dont care. I have nothing at stake in this. If I find out that I am wrong about something I will gladly take the new position, even if it means taking your position.

This is why I like Russians, they get to the point of things. This is from a conference on Kyoto in Moscow.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15556

This an article written by scientist who does not think global warming is a concern. She is a senior scientist at the Marsall Institute. It is well written but at times complicated. Now don't freak out because it was on the Herritage Foundation site.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Energy ... /HL758.cfm

I won't "freak out" because you're basically proving what I said all along: people with half a brain don't deny that global warming exists. They just don't all agree on what causes it or how serious a problem it is. The point about Bush is that he denies the earth is even heating up. I guess he knows something all the scientists don't. Maybe God personally informed him it was a hoax since they're so close.

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

да. Я помню теперь.

Я запомню теперь. (The more natural word order "теперь я запомню")

Спасибо. Я написала другое слово (sorry, don't know the Russian word for "case ending". Like I said, I know my cases but sometimes put in the wrong endings.)

case ending - падежное окончание

Here’s the straight dope on the US’s crazy system of electing presidents.
There is a total of 538 votes.
OK. Each state has 2 senators. California has 2 senators and is the state with the largest population. Wyoming, the state with the smallest population (it might be Alaska, but I think it is Wyoming), also has 2 US Senators.
50 states=100 Senators total.
The Senate is one of two Houses in the Federal Congress. The other House is unimaginatively called The House of Representatives. States have various numbers of House members, depending on a given state’s population. A state’s total number of EVs (electoral votes) is its 2 Senators + its total number of House members. For example, Wyoming, the state with the smallest population, has 3 EVs total because of its 2 Senators and 1 member of the House. The state with the biggest population is California. It has 55 total EVs. So, 55-2(number of federal Senators from the state)=53, which is the number of California’s House members.
It takes 270 EVs to become president. Here is something else you should know: The Federal Government is in a part of the Eastern US called Washington DC. This is the Capitol (c-a-p-i-t-a-l maybe?) of the US. This is not a state but it still gets 3 electoral votes because it is a city which has a large population.
On Election Day, when a state’s votes are all counted, the one with the most votes in that state gets ALL of that state’s EVs. (it’s a small bit different in Nebraska and Maine. These states, by state law (states’ laws govern the federal elections in the US. This is ANOTHER example of the dumb system we have here)decide who gets their votes by some complex system I do not understand. Believe me, it’s boring and usually does not matter. Almost always, one person will get ALL of Maine’s votes and one person will get ALL of Nebraska’s votes.
The total number of EVs hasn’t changed for many years. I think it’s been 538 since sometime in the 1920s, or something like that. It will stay at 538 until the federal government decides to increase the total number of House members. This would mean that current members would have their power diluted. House seats won't increase for a looooooooong looooooooong time to come. The total number of Senators will be 100 for almost forever or until the USA gets another state. Maybe number 51 should be Iraq?
Now, keep in mind that the total number of EVs has been 538 for a long time. But, the total number of electors in any single state can change every 10 years. Arizona, for example, had 8 votes in the 2000 Presidential election. In 2004, it had 10. What changed was the state’s total population, according to the 2000 census (count of population across the USA which is done every 10 years). If one state gains votes, another state has to lose votes. New York had 31 EVs in 2004 but 35 in 2000. New York lost people, Arizona gained people. The numbers of EVs for the various states will change again in the election of 2012, which will be decided by the census in 2010.
Good God!! This Electoral College system is damn complicated and totally ridiculous.
Usually, the candidate who gets the most votes in the country as a whole also gets a majority of EVs and becomes President. This has NOT been true 3 times in our history. The last time was in.............you guessed it! 2000!!! Al Gore got 500,000 more votes that Bush but Bush won because Bush got a few hundred more votes in the State of Florida. This isn’t really true. Gore really got more votes in Florida, but the election was stolen from Gore in Florida by very clever and BAD people. Many will disagree with this, but they are wrong. Gore won Florida in 2000 and should have been president. Ah! Sweet Memories.....
I said the unusual has happened 3 times in our history. It also happened in 1960, but hardly anybody knows about it. (or would care about it if they DID know about it) Democrats stole that election in the states of Illinois and Texas and some other state I don’t remember. (I was not alive in 1960, but I am, among many other things a nerd who reads far more than could possibly be good for me) Kennedy won the EV total and also the total popular vote of the USA by around 100,000 votes, which was about 1/10 of 1% of the total. Don’t believe the official figures for tihs election that you might see in some books. The more truthful books will tell you that Nixon really got more votes than Kennedy. Still, Kennedy won the Electoral College honestly. Quite the hero, that Kennedy. He almost got the USA and Russia involved in not one but, two nuclear wars. Imagine, Kennedy came close to killing the planet and he didn't even get a majority of the vote.
There is more to this incredibly dull and boring story of the American Electoral College system for electing the President of the USA. For example, what happens if 3 or more fairly strong candidates run for president and the election ends with no one having a majority of EV votes? This could have happened, for example, in 1968, 1992, 1996 and 2000 if things had been a bit different. What happens? Can’t matter for another 4 years. Don’t worry about it.
What happens if 2 candidates both get 269 votes? What happens? Can’t matter for another 4 years. Don’t worry about it.
I am sure all of this has bored you badly. It sure did me. I love politics. There are few things I love MORE than politics (won’t tell you what they are), but few things I find more boring than the #$%/&*^ Electoral College. That’s the biggest reason it remains. Nobody cares about it EVER except for a few weeks before every election for president when we realize how really messed up our whole mess of a system is. Right now, remember this: Can’t matter for another 4 years. Don’t worry about it.
One more thing. Are you sorry you asked this question? Aren't you even sorrier that someone actually bothered to ANSWER it? Even if you're not, I sure am.

Originally Posted by scotcher

I doubt there are even any lawyers who could explain all the ramifications to you, which in itself should be at least slightly worrying. The whole thing is basically unreadable without reference to thousands of other pre-existing laws
So you're left to rely on the good word of those who claim to have read and digested it, or those who wrote it.

I sure am glad its not my problem.

Well I have spent two days trying to make sence of it and have to agree that it is not possible to understand without referencing the codes and acts the Patriot Act changes. Basically I find that it broadens already exicting laws and adds a domestic dimention to Foreign Intelligence. Much of the concern over electronic eavsdropping is a moot point since our governments have been doing that for years now under Ecshelon, a project denied by both the British and American officials but however, admitted by Australian officials.

It seemed like the lawsuits brought against the PA were initiated by Arab or Muslim groups. That seems a little odd to me since the Act sweeps across all persons inside the US including citizens.

Quite a bit of PA had to do with changing the US code to include the Internet under electronic and telephone eavsdropping. Also to make banks responsible to check IDs and report on people in an effort to curtail money laundering.

On the bright side some of the worst parts have already been repealed and those of you who are dead set against this Act should keep in mind that there is a Sunsett Clause on some of the provisions in it, which sunset at the end of 2005.......But it will only sunset if Congress acts. Which means that you will have to let Congress know that you are against Patriot Act....in a big way! It would be my guess that Congress won't do anything otherwise. Also, on the bright side there are probably many more jobs opening up........at the CIA.

I don't believe that this is a Democrat/Republican issue since only 66 members did not note for it, so I would't hold Bush solely responsible. For me, I see vast potential for abuse by despotic agencies or Government with the PA. I don't think that we have a despotic government ......YET. I do think that we have despotic people in certain agencies and this of course concerns me as it did before the PA came into law. So to conclude I would say "Well I just don't know what to make of it yet". ...........But perhaps I have to say that since "They" are probably reading this (because they don't need a court order anymore. Anything posted on the Internet can be accessed and traced to its source) and I wouldn't want to piss them off. So I will continue my research on this.
----- Thought I'd add this little piece from Bob Barr. -------

"Rather than reducing duplicative bureaucratic layers, the administration proposes more bureaucracy for the intelligence community. We need a single, comprehensive, up-to-date data base of terrorists, suspected terrorists and associates of known terrorists. Yet today, three years after the worst terrorist attacks against the United States in our history, which succeeded in part because we lacked such a data base, we still do not have such a system in place.

What we do have in place are laws that seek to destroy what precious little privacy law-abiding citizens have left; secret court proceedings that undermine the very foundations of our Bill of Rights; and government "watch lists" that stop average U.S. citizens and well-known members of Congress from getting on airplanes. What's wrong with this picture? Plenty."

--

(Bob Barr, R-Ga., a former member of the House Judiciary Committee, served in Congress from 1995 to 2003.)

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

Originally Posted by BlackMage

My official prediction: JEB BUSH 2008!!!

P.S. Just because Bush is a Republican doesn't mean he is a bad president. I urge y'all to think of something he personally has done wrong.

He was caught for drinking and driving. I know it probably doesn't matter what he was like as a youngfeller, as he is a middle aged man now, but you asked, Lindsey.
By the way, do you spell your name as Lindsey or Lindsay? Because it is so appropriate (to my mind anyway) to call people by their right names.

Your point?

Beg, borrow or steal a copy of the new BBC documentary series 'The Power of Nightmares' - it's outstanding, especially the third part.

Originally Posted by Janice McNay

This isn’t really true. Gore really got more votes in Florida, but the election was stolen from Gore in Florida by very clever and BAD people.

See when you throw rubbish like this into a completely unbiased and informative explanation, you look dumb. You have no credible evidence of this radical and childish claim. If you had, Gore would have been awarded the presidency.