Thread: Hitler Reborn

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Is it just me or is this stuff slightly...concerning?

Completely the same kind of intolerance show the western countries, especially the USA and UK, trying to teach another ones how to live and imposing everywhere their so-called "democracy". There is only difference between them: the west bombs or invades almost everyone who has the different opinion, and does it on the governmental level. Could you give me a couple of examples when an Islamic country invaded or bombed the western one?

I want to be understood: I feel absolutely no sympathy to this kind of extremists, but at the same time I realize, that the west's behaviour can invoke nothing but indignation and wish for contradiction. I still hope, that western establishment will also realize it, until it's to late...

That's a load of shit. And yes I can give you plenty of examples. For instance, just take any terrorist bombing/attack/kidnapping/etc. in Europe or America by Palestinians and other muslims in the past 30 years. Moreover, these terrorists are supported by national governments: Palestine, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, ex-Chechnya, to name a few. These have been responsible for in one way or another supporting such well-known terrorist attacks such as the 1972 Olympics kidnappings/executions, the continuing attacks in Iraq, the continuing attacks in Israel, 9-11, the attempted destruction of a US airplane and various US infrastructure, the 1999 Moscow bombings, respectively. This is, to say the least, an extremely short list (and don't try to ignore that fact).

And I haven't even begun talking about all these terrorist/sharia states that actually launch more or less conventional military attacks on other countries (I don't know what your definition of 'Western' is, does it include Israel? Russia?), but it doesn't matter because an attack is an attack. Muslim sharia loving die hard extremist terrorists (pick one term of your liking) in national governments have attacked Israel, Israel again, again, etc., Kuwait, Russia, Kuwait again, Israel again, Russia again, etc. National governments have also been attacked and overrun by such people (hint: this means almost every country in the Middle East).

And stop that (Edited. L.) about western governments conspiring to 'impose' their ways on people. Democracy is the ONLY way to go and you should be smart enough to see that. Sharia governments should be taken out, no question. (I am reminded of "Мы считаем, что этот вопрос закрыт. Окончательно. Все." - В.В.П.)

That reminds me of someone who was saying something about "the final solution of the Jewish Question". How very democratically indeed!

Originally Posted by Ramil

That reminds me of someone who was saying something about "the final solution of the Jewish Question". How very democratically indeed!

I knew I was gonna have to deal with you, Ramil, and your (Edited. L.) illogical (Edited. L.). I don't even know what you're getting at.

Originally Posted by Guin

Completely the same kind of intolerance shown by the western countries, especially the USA and UK, trying to teach others how to live and imposing everywhere their so-called "democracy". There is only one difference between them: the west bombs or invades almost everyone who has a different opinion, and does it on the governmental level. Could you give me a couple of examples when an Islamic country invaded or bombed a western one?

I want to be understood: I feel absolutely no sympathy to this kind of extremists, but at the same time I realize, that the west's behaviour can invoke nothing but indignation and wish for contradiction. I still hope, that the western establishment will also realize it, until it's too late...

Want an example? Let's see, how many times the the arab (read muslim) countries attack Israel? Three times? Anyway, if the muslims had the means to invade and bomb western countries, including Russia, they would. Their only problem is that they are so backwards that they can't afford or have the know how to furnish such an expensive army! That's why Iran should never have the nuclear bomb, because their president (albeit he is losing alot of popularity in his own country) keeps raving about wiping Israel off the map. I am no fan of Israel, but that is sheer insanity.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Want an example? Let's see, how many times the the arab (read muslim) countries attack Israel? Three times? Anyway, if the muslims had the means to invade and bomb western countries, including Russia, they would. Their only problem is that they are so backwards that they can't afford or have the know how to furnish such an expensive army! That's why Iran should never have the nuclear bomb, because their president (albeit he is losing alot of popularity in his own country) keeps raving about wiping Israel off the map. I am no fan of Israel, but that is sheer insanity.

Israel? OK - assume it is the first example of the muslim governmental invasion to the West, although, to be honest, this country is not quite western itself. But Ok, I’m agree. Do you have more examples? I doubt it. All you can adduce are various terrorist acts, but terror is not muslim prerogative...

At the same time I can adduce dozens of cases of western invasions to the East, sanctioned on the governmental level. For example: Crusades, British colonial policy and atrocities in Afghanistan, India, Iran, Palestine, Africa, etc... And what about African slave trade in America, what about genocide of indians (not quite east, but anyway)? Nowadays examples can also recall everyone: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, "humanitarian" bombings in Somalia etc... Don't forget Yugoslavia (not east but very symptomatic). The last US threats towards Iran only complete the picture...

Now I want to clear my point: I don't want to tell that all regimes on the East are good, not at all. But it is not yet a reason for the West to teach them how to leave, and, all the more, that is not a reason to invade or bomb them. All the talks of the USA and UK about so-called "democracy" look like falsity and hypocrisy, especially taking into account the bloody history of western civilization. I guess, the real reasons are oil and gas, but how do they correlate with concept of democracy?

But the most stupid thing, that West could do, is to turn Russia from an ally to an enemy. Everything what the USA and UK are doing now only promote this transformation. That is simply stupid...


P.S. Thank you for the corrections.

Originally Posted by V

Originally Posted by Ramil

That reminds me of someone who was saying something about "the final solution of the Jewish Question". How very democratically indeed!

I knew I was gonna have to deal with you, Ramil, and your (Edited. L.) illogical (Edited. L.). I don't even know what you're getting at.

No wonder, everything should be carefully explained to slowpokes like you.

You said:

Democracy is the ONLY way to go and you should be smart enough to see that. Sharia governments should be taken out, no question.

Such categorical sayings may soon lead to "the final solution of the Arabic Question". Democracy is not, by any means, the only way to go and the American type of democracy is much worse than any dictatorship. Period.
Such governments like they have in the USA should be taken out too then. No doubt, no question.

What I love about this forum is the subtle sense of nuance in every argument, and the commendable appreciation of the grey areas between the black and white.

Hey, I'm just having fun here

Originally Posted by Ramil

Democracy is not, by any means, the only way to go and the American type of democracy is much worse than any dictatorship. Period.
Such governments like they have in the USA should be taken out too then. No doubt, no question.

Btw, why didnt you take the chance to move to Дудаев land back in the 90's if you're so tired of democracy? That was like totally accessible to you. It's never too late!

Originally Posted by scotcher

What I love about this forum is the subtle sense of nuance in every argument, and the commendable appreciation of the grey areas between the black and white.

Yeah, like that between western democracy and sharia law



Gah!!!

Just thought I'd give you a new story

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...iew/index.html

Originally Posted by Guin

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Want an example? Let's see, how many times the the arab (read muslim) countries attack Israel? Three times? Anyway, if the muslims had the means to invade and bomb western countries, including Russia, they would. Their only problem is that they are so backwards that they can't afford or have the know how to furnish such an expensive army! That's why Iran should never have the nuclear bomb, because their president (albeit he is losing alot of popularity in his own country) keeps raving about wiping Israel off the map. I am no fan of Israel, but that is sheer insanity.

Israel? OK - assume it is the first example of the muslim governmental invasion of the West, although, to be honest, this country is not quite western itself. But Ok, I agree. Do you have more examples? I doubt it. All you can adduce are various terrorist acts, but terror is not muslim prerogative...

At the same time I can adduce dozens of cases of western invasions to the East, sanctioned on the governmental level. For example: Crusades, British colonial policy and atrocities in Afghanistan, India, Iran, Palestine, Africa, etc... And what about African slave trade in America, what about genocide of indians (not quite east, but anyway)? Recent examples anyone can recall: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, "humanitarian" bombings in Somalia etc... Don't forget Yugoslavia (not east but very symptomatic). The last US threats towards Iran only complete the picture...

Well, if you are going that far back, yes I can give you more examples. Ones you should be very familiar with: Ever heard of the Ottoman Empire? What about the Muslim invasion of Spain? Pretty much, if you had a border with a muslim country, you'd be at war. Russia has noticed that themselves many a time. Yes there were atrocities comitted by the west, just as much as by the east. You can not put the blame entirely on the West, my friend. Vietnam wasn't anything to to with "the East" but a fight against communism, just like Korea. A whole different ball game. I thought we were talking about Islam.

Originally Posted by Guin

Now I want to make my point clear: I don't want to say that all regimes in the East are good, not at all. But it is not a reason for the West to teach them how to live, and, all the more, that is not a reason to invade or bomb them. All the talks of the USA and UK about so-called "democracy" look like falsity and hypocrisy, especially taking into account the bloody history of western civilization. I guess, the real reasons are oil and gas, but how do they correlate it with concept of democracy?

I agree that this war was stupid, illogical, irrational, irresponsible, and many other adjectives starting with i. Moreover, it is spreading more hate in the muslim world. But that is no reason to condone terrorism, justify terrorism or encourage terrorism. There are plenty of peaceful governments in the West that don't bomb other countries and are completly against this war and all that it stands for. Many Americans think so too, don't be too haste to lump all Americans into one category.

Originally Posted by Guin

But the most stupid thing, that the West could do, is to turn Russia from an ally to an enemy. Everything what the USA and UK are doing now only promotes this transformation. That is simply stupid...

Not only Russia, in fact, the whole world. Look what is happening in Iran and North Korea, not to speak of Venezuela. Bush is an idiot, I think we've established this fact long ago!

Originally Posted by Guin

P.S. Thank you for the corrections.

My pleasure!

So, I was just chillin', you know, reading the Koran. I came up with some good inspirational quotes for you guys:

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers." - 2:191

"O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand." - 8:65

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." - 9:5

"O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard." - 9:123

Just thought I'd share

Countdown to someone posting cherry-picked, out-of-context Bible quotes in response...

5... 4... 3... 2...

Originally Posted by scotcher

Countdown to someone posting cherry-picked, out-of-context Bible quotes in response...

5... 4... 3... 2...

LOL, go right ahead. But this is not about Christianity vs. Islam, it's more like Civilization vs. Islam.

Anyway, I'm not making anything up, and it's all relevant.

Йолки-палки. Hitler Reborn. Я думал тут про Жириновского напишут.

Originally Posted by mishau_

Йолки-палки. Hitler Reborn. Я думал тут про Жириновского напишут.

Это будет попозже!