:o Where did you get it from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
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:o Where did you get it from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Regional analytical reports. But wait. Goodle returns about 6800000 links on that: Check for yourselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
And what gave YOU the right to ram communism down the throats of 14 other nations and bring them into the Soviet Union? Mind your own business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
And what gave YOU the right to assassinate millions of American Indians, to capture their lands, to impose them your laws? What gave YOU the right to import slaves from Africa and to exploit them?Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Yeah, and to ram capitalism down their throats... :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Guin
Yeah, and give us back Alaska :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
We'll trade you Alaska for Evgenii Malkin? Fair?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
YOU sold us Alaska, we didn't take it over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
OK, the score is US forced our stuff on Indians, Vietnamese, Koreans, Africans, (and some will argue Iraq/Afghanistan). USSR shoved their stuff on Belorussians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Kyrgyzs (or however you spell that), Turkmenis, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Moldavians, Georgians, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians. And you kept Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia as satellite nations, forcing communism on them too. So tell me who needs to mind their business more?
And LOL about Evgeni Malkin! He'll be a great addition to the Penguins! :lol:
We didn't sell it to the USA. Read the treaty. There was no word "sold", there was "ceded" (I just hope I picked the right word, cos I saw only russian version of the treaty).. По крайней мере в русском варианте есть слово "уступать". А "уступать" в значении того времени "временно давать в управление".Quote:
YOU sold us Alaska, we didn't take it over.
Так что вот так вот :)
Alright, ceded. Whatever. My point was we didn't just march in and take it away from Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
What is your point exactly? That it was signed over under duress? Or that it was in some other way illegitimate? Because you can split hairs over "sold" or "cede" all you want, but at the end of the day you're still saying the same thing: A large amount of money was given to the Government of Russia for Alaska.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
Sorry, I don't know about the doctors in Russia, but the Russian doctors over here definitely don't know what they're doing. A person who is treated by a Russian doctor either is misdiagnosed or becomes sicker than they were. For example, I have a friend who had just the common cold. He went to a Russian doctor since he's Russian and because they're usually much cheaper to go to than an American doctor. Well, my friend's cold actually worsened due to these 'remedies' this Russian doctor gave him. The cold eventually developed into pneumonia and he was sick for months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
another occasion, a Russian dentist was working out of a basement, or something like that. The same friend has something wrong with his tooth. I'm not sure what procedure he was supposed to have done, but the dentist never finished and left an open wound in his mouth.
Now, you would think that my friend would be smart enough to go to another doctor after these 2 occasions, but unfortunately he's not. He went to an eye doctor because his eyes have been extremely red. He went to the doctor and was diagnosed with pink eye. My friend was given eye drops to clear it up.. Well, 3 months later, my friend still has red eyes. Pink eye does not ever last that long and it is highly contagious.. No one else around him has it. :lol:
As far as the education goes over there, I hear it is much better than over here. However, many of the degrees obtained there don't transfer here. They're sort of lost in translation.
Correct! People can still donate money to the research.. private and public companies I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
First USA is keeping as satellite nations half of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Second, you probably don't know a lot about your own history.
Most recent military invasions to other independent states by USA (including air bombings):
Most of these acts caused thousands and millions of innocent lifes (not soldiers or terrorists,but civilians).
Korea (early 50th)
Cuba (1961, failed)
Dominican Republic (1965)
Vietnam (1965-1973)
Laos (approximately the same time)
Grenada (1983-1985)
Libya (1986)
Panama (1988 or 1989)
Afganistan, Sudan (1998)
and don't forget former Yugoslavia and Iraq, which you keep bombing since 1991.
That's only what I remember, I'm sure there are more.
What happened in 1998 in Afghanistan?
Missile strikes. Actually they wasn't large-scale and I'm not sure there were a lot of victims. Still it was intrusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Oh yeah, that was when Bill Clinton sent a couple of cruise missles to try to take out Osama... It is all coming back to me!
With Osama sitting astride! :DQuote:
It is all coming back to me!
Yeah? Where? What nations do we keep as our property where we force them to follow our form of government and invade them and crush revolts if they don't?Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Canadia. All your Polar Bears are belong to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
USSR:
Missiles in Cuba, ready to fire at US: 1962
Afghanistan invasion: 1979
Finland invasion: 1939
Czechoslovakia invasion: 1968*
Hungary invasion: 1956 (that year may be wrong)*
6 million Ukrainian kulaks dead, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
20 million Russians, Kazakhs, Latvians, etc.... killed, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
Vietnam: 1960s-70s*
Korea: 1958 (that may be wrong year, but you were there nonetheless)*
Missiles/weapons sold to Iran: 2003-ish-2006
Missiles/weapons sold to Lebanon: 2006
Georgia (the country, not state): 2006
*=IF NO COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE POLITICS OF OTHERS, WHAT WERE YOU DOING HERE?!
ha ha :lol: There were missiles on both sides "ready to fire" for 40 years, so what? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Ok, that's our inner business. I was talking about intrusion to other countries affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
That's true, though there were NO soviet regular troops in Vietnam and Korea and we didn't drop napalm bombs on villages.Quote:
Afghanistan invasion: 1979
Finland invasion: 1939
Czechoslovakia invasion: 1968*
Hungary invasion: 1956 (that year may be wrong)*
Vietnam: 1960s-70s*
Korea: 1958 (that may be wrong year, but you were there nonetheless)*
Btw in Czechoslovakia there were not only soviet army, but also 4 other armies, including polish. So is Poland now "evil empire"? :lol:
Our missiles were in Turkey to counter yours in Cuba (or, the Caribbean) in case you fired yours. We didn't jut put em there because we wanted to.
And I already said I didn't think the US was right to bomb My Lai, remember?
Well Poland was communist, because it was a Soviet satellite, and their communists aren't any better than yours. I wouldn't call it an "evil empire", however, because communism was forced upon them, they didn't choose it.
P.S. I'm sure you're going to have something to say, but don't expect a reply for awhile because I've gotta go somewhere and won't be back for a little bit.
Ok, I'm not professor of american history though I'm sure USA wasn't more peacefull than USSR. Actually it expanded the same way as Soviet Union - by annexing other countries territories (sure you know about American-Mexican wars).Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
So I'll do some Google research on USA military intrusions (yeah, I'm single-minded :lol: ) and post the results later. You're welcomed to do the same on USSR. :wink:
Cuban missiles vs. Turkey missiles. Do you guys even know your history or has it been rewritten since I last learned it?
The USSR was constructing missile sites in Cuba, but there were never any missiles. That was the outcome of the whole Cuban missile crisis. The Soviets were transporting the missiles to Cuba and America blockaded them. There were never any missiles ready to launch on Cuba itself. Ever.
The deal struck by USA and USSR was that no Cuban missiles would equal to no Turkish missiles. It therefore follows that there were no missiles in Turkey.
Capiche? :lol:
Capiche. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Your sober view of things spoils our leading-to-nowhere argumant. :lol:
And why couldn't you assemble them in your own country? A little suspicious they had to be shipped to a location 90 MILES AWAY FROM THE US to be assembled...
And BTW gRomoZeka, about the Yugoslavia bombings, I told you I didn't support them earlier, and I agree they never should've happened.
Because we were to far for missiles to hit target, while your missiles were close enough. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Your target being the US. So you were planning to fire them then...hear that, kalinka?Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
:) :roll: No, we wanted to scare you, and we couldn't achieve the desireable effect because you were too far.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Are you sure about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
A U-2 flight in late August photographed a new series of SAM (surface-to-air missile) sites being constructed, but on September 4, 1962 Kennedy told Congress that there were no offensive missiles in Cuba. On the night of September 8, the first consignment of SS-4 MRBMs was unloaded in Havana, and a second shipload arrived on September 16. The Soviets were building nine sites — six for SS-4s and three for SS-5s with a range of 4,000 km (2,400 statute miles). The planned arsenal was forty launchers, an increase in Soviet first strike capacity of 70%. This matter was readily noticed by the Cuban population, and perhaps as many as a thousand reports of such reached Miami, and were evaluated and then considered spurious by U.S. intelligence [1].
In early 1992 it was confirmed that key Soviet forces in Cuba had, by the time the crisis broke, received tactical nuclear warheads for their artillery rockets, and IL-28 bombers [5], though General Anatoly Gribkov, part of the Soviet staff responsible for the operation, stated that the local Soviet commander, General Issa Pliyev, had predelegated authority to use them if the U.S. had mounted a full-scale invasion of Cuba. Gribkov misspoke: the Kremlin's authorization remained unsigned and undelivered. (Other accounts show that Pliyev was given permission to use tactical nuclear warheads but only in the most extreme case of an American invasion during which contact with Moscow is lost. However when American forces seemed to be readying for an attack, (after the U-2 photos, but before Kennedy's television address), Khrushchev rescinded his earlier permission for Pliyev to use the tactical nuclear weapons, even under the most extreme conditions. Whether because of the clear American nuclear dominance, or simply out of benevolence, Khrushchev wanted to avoid nuclear war at all costs.)
In 1961, the U.S. started deploying 15 Jupiter IRBM (intermediate-range ballistic missiles) nuclear missiles near İzmir, Turkey, which directly threatened cities in the western sections of the Soviet Union. These missiles were regarded by President Kennedy as being of questionable strategic value; an SSBN (ballistic submarine) was capable of providing the same cover with both stealth and superior firepower.
From the wikipedia article. It would seem that the nukes were in play in both countries...unless, this is one of those times when wikipedia has failed us. There were NOT the missiles themselves, as you noted, but the launchers were being constructed and the intent was clear enough. The missiles WERE in Turkey though.
Bah, facts are always a nuisance. The history DID change, damn that wiki! So, after reading the article a little more nuance is provided.
"They [US Intelligence] were unaware that 12 kiloton-range nuclear warheads had already been delivered to the island and mounted on FROG-3 "Luna" short-range artillery rockets, which could be launched on the authority of the Soviet commander on the island, General Pliyev [4], in the event of an invasion."
and
"Kennedy responded by publicly accepting the first deal and sending Robert F. Kennedy to the Soviet embassy to privately accept the second that the fifteen Jupiter missiles near İzmir, Turkey would be removed six months later. "
But it is essentially what I said :)
Oh yeah, I might add the Berlin Wall and the coercion of communism on the people of East Germany and the low living standards endured by those people. (I know of someone whose friend's sister was from East Germany and she had to wait several years before getting the car she ordered, and when she did get it, it looked like crap.) And the KGB agents stationed at the wall shot anyone who attempted to get into West Berlin. It was the US who carried out the Berlin Airlift and dropped food and supplies to the starving East Berliners. We're not all that evil, eh? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
No, that wasn't, taking into consideration 30 mln soviet citizens killed in WW2. :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Starving? When was that?
Anyway it was very kind of you. Did you also drop supplies to Hiroshima and Nagasaki after dropping nuclear bomb on them?
You guys made a non-agression pact with Hitler, and if he hadn't violated it and invaded the USSR, who knows? You may have kept it.... :o
And yes, the Germans did wrongly kill millions of Soviet citizens but that doesn't mean you need to punish German citizens who had nothing to do with it.
And we did donate money to Japan and help them rebuild, and today they're one of our best friends.
Well , we were not punishing them in the strict sense of word. Do you know that Eastern Germans lived not worse but even better than people in Russia, so Russians themselves believed they acted fair and even generous. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Ahh...Soviet communism fails once again to achieve happiness...Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Ahh... Somebody's told you already that there were no communism in USSR, that was socialism. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
And I see you ignored my bait about nuclear bomb. Nothing to say?
I said we helped Japan rebuild...
Japan was still going after us, not wanting to end the war. We had to take em out in one fell swoop or they'd do the same to us by continuous warfare in the Pacific.