Thread: The end.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Answers based on my understanding as a foreigner with minimal understanding of the actual situation in Russia, but with desire to learn about it:

The 36% of the GDP is really based on heavy industry, but the significant part of it are oil-gas, and as you can see we don`t export much of anything else



Steel exports are 8 % and machines - 6 %, food 4 % and that`s it, now it can be suggested that the current situation (in 2014-2015) might be even worse. Since everyone hates us. Like Ukrainians who intentionally boycott our food.

Don`t be naive about our military power. The old technologies still might be interesting for some 3rd-world countries but even this is starting to decay. You can learn that almost half of rockets literally will never reach its target (check Статистика испытаний советских и российских БРПЛ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91...5%D1%82%D0%B0) - section "успешные"). Russians are good at showing their flabby muscles and rusty rockets, but it`s not about the amounts of tanks you have, but how modern they are. By the way... When you check wikipidea lists - you probably get impressed about the number of military personell and tanks, but the secret is that Russia can barely protect it`s own borders. Only ~35 thousand out 1 million soldiers are professionals, everyone else are rookies recruited due to our conscription who often don`t even have a chance to practice their shooting skills at least once during 12-months service. Concerning tanks... only god knows how many we actually do have and which are ready to be used. Same with airplanes - interceptors fall from time to time during tests (recently Mig-29 fell in Moscow suburbs Истребитель МиГ-29 упал в ста метрах от здания школы в Подмосковье - Первый по срочным новостям — LIFE | NEWS).

Space industry is over for Russia as well - google it. It`s not competitive any longer. We don`t have such guys like Elon Musk (he is a real Steve Jobs in space industry in case you haven`t heard of him). Our oligarchs who came to their fortunes by nationalisation and other semi-legal schemes don`t have much of a talent in order to develop something unique. Promises to creat a brand new russian vehicle are forgotten. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo-Mobile "Ё-мобиль") But I don`t blame them... Russia is definetely no the best soil to organize a multimillion businesses because you can loose it at any moment and get behind bars when someone wants to tackle it using his political or executive power.

Russia is corrupted, but USA and China has biggest inequality on income based on the Gini Coefficient. Perhaps USA has more poor people per analogy of population than Russia.

- yeah, tell this to Russians, test your destiny... Again, you`ve heard about "USA inequality" but that`s a complete joke. You haven`t seen the reality yet. Millions of Russians work as teachers, doctors, in sales, on factories (of those great heavy industries you mentioned)... just for less than 200-300 $ \ month. Some come to Moscow for earnings, working 45 days in retail large stores (like french Auchan), doing $800 for that period, spending 12-14 hours on legs. Don`t forget that prices on food in Russia are higher than in USA since we import the majority of it. At the same time some made multimillion (or billion) fortunes just in several years without working hard, by just finding themselves at the right plce on the right time.

These countries cannot be compared with Russia, because they are protectorates of the Big Powers (new colonies).

- of course they can be compared. We started under same conditions 20 years ago. Their economies used to be damaged by our communist regime as well. And - again - they had no such amount of natural resources. That`s even if you make me to believe in your "new colony" absurdity. If we had enough will - we could diversify our economy, invest in education and scienece, but decided to spent much of an incomes on military (like useless Cruisers in Medittarian Sea, Mistral ship etc etc), Olympics 2014, FIFA 2018 and other toys. We had all kind of possibilites and fcuked them up. (And why everyone is so sure that americans are the reason why countries like South Korea or eastern Europe states came from ashes to prosperity? They have got nothing else to do to feed 60 millions Polands? That`s a complete russian-propaganda nonsence, explaining our laziness.)

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

7. As an economist I recognise that some times dignity is more important than money. If Russians consider that they do anything they do (whether is called invasion in Georgia or invation in Ukraine) for dignity I respect this. If they do all this just to increase the money and power of some oligarchs, I feel sorry of them. But as I understood Russians consider that Crimea has always been part of Russia (if I am not wrong the majority of population there are Russians), as Greeks consider that Cyprus has always been part of Greece (80% Greek population). The difference that Greeks never had the balls to enter and take back Cyprus, but Russians had the balls to enter and take Crimea.

Dignity?

We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us. Don`t mix "balls" with russian stupidity. That doesn`t matter what the population of Crimea consists of (actually tatars and ukrainians were at least % 25-40 of it - so they had to leave their homes). The land belongs to Ukraine, that`s what matters. With russians or without on it.

Russians should learn the history first. And then, to learn to respect the law. Since we are not able to - I can`t see any "dignity" in taking by force something that doesn`t belong to us. Then no one will invest in our economy, no Elon Musk will occur here willing to spend biliions on researches. If the government doesn`t respect the private property -
no one will respect us.

And I don`t care about sences of my dear nationals, their fear ofNATO or smth... Wanna live in peace? 1. Create professional army (do not expand your power everywhere from Cuba to Black Sea and Syria, but be humble and smart... we are not USA and cannot be like them.) 2. Act correctly on international arena.

Horror stories about NATO were writted in order to make the nation believe that enemies are everywhere. In fact, there is nothing concertning safety. That`s just the way of pursuing someones political goals.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

Dignity?

We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us.

Law? Laws in geopolitics don't exist anymore. For Russia having pro-american regime in Ukraine means death as an independent country. Everyone in big politics understands that. And still US+EU forced the issue. Putin had 2 options: let his country die slowly but surely or throw it into a war having little chances to succeed. Everyone expected him to choose former. He choosed latter. Everyone hates him now.

Originally Posted by Suobig

Law? Laws in geopolitics don't exist anymore. For Russia having pro-american regime in Ukraine means death as an independent country. Everyone in big politics understands that. And still US+EU forced the issue. Putin had 2 options: let his country die slowly but surely or throw it into a war having little chances to succeed. Everyone expected him to choose former. He choosed latter. Everyone hates him now.

Neither of the two points (namely, the Ukrainian rule would be"pro-American", and that a pro-American regime at Russia's borders would threaten its sovereignty) is actually backed up by any evidence, anything but countless statements made by guys who do propaganda for a living. Why oppose yourselves to "evil America" and raise the iron curtain again? You two used to be friends, just recall those times. Stop thinking of everyone out there as your enemies. Maybe some of what's going on in the world would threaten someone's autocracy, but certainly not your whole country. Think about that.

And anyway, starting a war with another state out of geopolitical reasons is both a very stupid, and dirty and inhuman thing to do.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Neither of the two points (namely, the Ukrainian rule would be"pro-American", and that a pro-American regime at Russia's borders would threaten its sovereignty) is actually backed up by any evidence

Learned from the best

Originally Posted by Jen Psaki

So these are just further evidence of the connection between Russia and the armed militants
ukraine_kramatorsk.jpg

Originally Posted by hddscan

Learned from the best

How are those two even connected? Except maybe the keyword "evidence"

Originally Posted by Eric C.

How are those two even connected? Except maybe the keyword "evidence"

The point is there is no evidence needed as long as people believe what they are told, as Jen showed it to the whole world. And right now neither you nor Suobig presented any evidence which leaves the topic to believers I suspect you are in the minority on the subject.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Neither of the two points (namely, the Ukrainian rule would be"pro-American", and that a pro-American regime at Russia's borders would threaten its sovereignty) is actually backed up by any evidence

No evidence, huh?
Victoria Nuland was not discussing who she does and who she does not want to see in the Rada?
NATO was not planning to place anti-missile systems in Poland? And now they have Ukraine - way better place for anti-missile systems. Nice step to break that disturbing nuclear parity.
Also Sevastopol port has huge strategic importance for russian Navy in the Black Sea. That needs no evidence - it's geography. Does anyone believe that after joining NATO Ukraine would allow russian Navy to stay in Crimea?

There were times when Russia believed in fairytales about "you have no enemies" and "NATO will never expand to the East". We've learned something from those.

Originally Posted by Suobig

NATO was not planning to place anti-missile systems in Poland? And now they have Ukraine - way better place for anti-missile systems. Nice step to break that disturbing nuclear parity.

"Those who don't steal aren't afraid of police patrols. " No matter what, anti-missile systems are very good, and hopefully they spread everywhere in massive numbers. While on the other side of it, humanity has to find a way to get rid of ALL nuclear weapons any country possesses, completely once and for all. Let the dumba**es shout out loud and dick measure (I believe that's what they call "politics"), but without that nuclear stuff.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

"Those who don't steal aren't afraid of police patrols. " No matter what, anti-missile systems are very good, and hopefully they spread everywhere in massive numbers. While on the other side of it, humanity has to find a way to get rid of ALL nuclear weapons any country possesses, completely once and for all. Let the dumba**es shout out loud and dick measure (I believe that's what they call "politics"), but without that nuclear stuff.

Putin is not as naive as you might imagine to be lulled and mesmerized by such "soothing" lullabies of the West.))

“Sometimes I wonder, maybe the bear should just sit quietly, munch on berries and honey rather than chasing after piglets, maybe then, they would leave it alone? But no, they wouldn’t, because they will always try to chain it up. And as soon as they chain it up, they will pull out its teeth and claws.”

By teeth and claws, Putin said he meant Russia’s nuclear weapons. The west was circling round to destroy Russia, so it could steal its natural resources, he continued. “Once they’ve taken out his claws and his teeth, then the bear is no longer necessary. He’ll become a stuffed animal.”

Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

Originally Posted by diogen_

Putin is not as naive as you might imagine to be lulled and mesmerized by such "soothing" lullabies of the West.))



Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

LOL

Putin predicts economic recovery but warns West against pressuring Russian ‘bear’ - The Washington Post

Putin, the epitome of honesty, and the most credible politician ever (lol) says the economy will recover in 2 years. You must be really gullible to believe anything he says.

At least, Russians can be rest assured they can be arrested when they complain publicly.

Originally Posted by diogen_

Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

That's an effing lie. He has never said "I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble", this is completely made up. Although I'm not surprised, because it's the Guardian.

Originally Posted by diogen_

Putin is not as naive as you might imagine to be lulled and mesmerized by such "soothing" lullabies of the West.))



Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

The question is not how naive Putin is. The question is, how naive his followers among ordinary Russians are, and if there are limits for that naiveness at all.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us. Don`t mix "balls" with russian stupidity. That doesn`t matter what the population of Crimea consists of (actually tatars and ukrainians were at least % 25-40 of it - so they had to leave their homes). The land belongs to Ukraine, that`s what matters. With russians or without on it.

First of all, China, Brazil, India, Iran, Indonesia, South Africa and others couldn't give a darn about what happened in Ukraine, either way. The US and the EU doesn't constitute the entire world.

Secondly, a lot of people in Europe and a fair number in North America realise that mainstream media is telling a pack of lies about Ukraine.

They are only presenting only one side of the story, and they are presenting unsubstantiated rumours as facts because it suits their narrative. People need to hear both sides of the story with as much evidence as possible.

If anyone is guilty of creating the situation in Ukraine, it's those who spurred on the coup d'etat. I see no proof that the Russian state is pulling the strings of the rebels in Donbass. All it's guilty of is not sealing its borders or preventing its citizens from supporting the rebels. As for Crimea, how the hell can anyone be against something that 90% of the population somewhere supports? That's being against democracy and that's essentially the position somebody condemning Russia for Crimea would have to take. Also, such a person would have to be some kind of history and culture revisionist.

Russia has nothing to be ashamed of in regards to any of these events. The situation wouldn't even have occurred if Washington with the help of Brussels hadn't decided it wanted to oust Yanukovich. Russia didn't start it.

If you want to feel bad about something your country is falsely accused of, I am not going to stop you.

But it would make a lot more sense for you to feel bad about, for example, unfair treatment of people during the USSR times, or corruption and social injustices in modern Russia - these things are real and indisputable.
America's political accusations about Russia's foreign policy are lies - it's rather sad that you would choose to believe it.

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia (International currency / exchange reserves).
It smells 1998.

international reserves.JPG

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia (International currency / exchange reserves).
It smells 1998.

international reserves.JPG

I don't think so... It couldn't get that bad again.
Russia's come a long way since then and whatever else people think about United Russia party, they have some very good expert advisers who know what they are doing. Including financial people.

Also as many have pointed out, no other party will win an election in Russia, so whatever financial program is launched to tackle the problem, it will be allowed to run its course, probably good. Stability is good. That rarely happens in Europe, where everything is short term.

"This too will pass" It's a temporary set back for a country that cannot but get richer.
Just a shame that people will have hard times until this is over.
Of course I have never been through anything like this - but Russians have, and are tough!

In Stockholm where I come from, apparently 30% of all tourists are Russians (I didn't know that, but just read it in the paper) and they are the best spenders of all. This year, practically no Russians are coming. Apparently this will lead to huge losses in hotels and tourist shops.