Thread: Elections in Belarus

Originally Posted by sperk

Hanna, can you buy anything to eat?

Yeah, definitely - there is plenty... See my travel blog.
Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true. This is not a dictatorship or an "outpost of tyranny", "axis of evil" or anything of the sort. Nobody looks or behaves like they are oppressed or scared of the police or state or anything else. I've met several people who critisized the government, and several who praised it. I think it's unfair on the people of Belarus to belittle their political choices and to impose sanctions which no doubt impact only regular people, not the leadership anyway. The politics of Belarus is the Belarussians problem, and nobody else's.

It is not communist or even very socialist, and it's not very much like the USSR apart from some legacy stuff. It has a unique character though, which I am trying to explain in my travel blog. It's well worth a visit because of this unique character and also because it's simply a very interesting, pleasant and charming country in lots of different ways. People are great. The most annoying thing is that there is a lot of bureacracy.

Whether the democracy is up to closer scrutiny or not, I couldn't really say - there probably is merit to some of the criticism.
But frankly I think that the majority DOES support the current leadership and they have done a very good job in lots of areas, so it's not surprising. Perhaps Belarus could invite the EU to actually organise the election next time, according to the existing budget for elections.

I don't think Eastern Europeans in general, and particularly people in the ex USSR are massively hung up about "democracy" according to the Western model. I think they are more interested in a government that produces results - such as stability, prosperity and good living conditions - perhaps they are prepared to pay a small price in marginally less political freedom for that.

If the current .by leadership mess up badly enough, then the people will probably eventually kick them out. There is plenty of external support for the opposition, I just don't think there is a critical mass of people inside of Belarus supporting the opposition right now. But if the devaluation problem gets any worse, that might change. I think the people in Minsk are generally more pro West than the rest of the country.

In the building where I am staying, somebody has put up an EU sticker with the word "Belarus" inside the stars, similar to the stickers for EU member states. Someone else has then tried to erase the word Belarus from the sticker.

But yeah, everything you need is available - though NOT to the very specialised level you'd get in a big city Western Europe, and not top-end stuff. But that's nothing special for Belarus though, it's the same in lots of countries. There is no visible crime at all, couldn't be safer.... No beggars, super-clean everywhere, the majority of buildings have been recently renovated or are well maintained. People are nice, friendly and helpful and you can feel completely safe.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true.

Maybe some of these boys have been hard at work trying to shape opinions....Another precious waste of tax payers' money.
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media | Technology | The Guardian
The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Washington's Blog
I think that maybe some of them have been on the MR forums too.

Originally Posted by Seraph

Maybe some of these boys have been hard at work trying to shape opinions....
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media | Technology | The Guardian
The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Washington's Blog
I think that maybe some of them have been on the MR forums too.

Wow, I had no idea that was happening! How super-creepy!
Please read the Guardian article at the very least.

And who's doing it, if not the US military and multinational corporation.
It's propaganda at the creepiest possible level.....

Can you really get a bot to act like a human and participate in debates?

Apparently these "fake" users have a full online "persona" with email address, facebook account, and unique IP address in the city they are supposed to be living in.

Occassionally the odd person on this forum appears so truly brainwashed that it's hard to believe they are for real. Unfortunately I think they are...

And following from the BBC article that Seraph links to: In my childhood, the US carried out some psy-ops in Sweden. Basically they did things that upset the public, and made out that it was being done by the USSR, to make people scared of the USSR. It gradually started working. However in the early 00s it was revealed, using modern science, that these things were done by the US, and not the USSR. I just couldn't believe it, but there the evidence was completely clear. It's just absolutely disgusting to be subjected to such manipulation.

Originally Posted by BBC

Perhaps the most startling aspect of the roadmap is its acknowledgement that information put out as part of the military's psychological operations, or Psyops, is finding its way onto the computer and television screens of ordinary Americans.
"Information intended for foreign audiences, including public diplomacy and Psyops, is increasingly consumed by our domestic audience," it reads.
"Psyops messages will often be replayed by the news media for much larger audiences, including the American public," it goes on.
The document's authors acknowledge that American news media should not unwittingly broadcast military propaganda. "Specific boundaries should be established," they write. But they don't seem to explain how.
"In this day and age it is impossible to prevent stories that are fed abroad as part of psychological operations propaganda from blowing back into the United States - even though they were directed abroad," says Kristin Adair of the National Security Archive.

Translation: The bullshit lies and propaganda that we spread in faraway countries to suit our purposes must be prevented from being picked up by our own national media.

This makes me wonder if I can trust ANYTHING I read in any media. If even bloggers and people can be faked, not to mention the news you get in newspapers and on TV because they are simply too outrageous.

Originally Posted by Hanna

And who's doing it, if not the US military and multinational corporation.

Well, let's think. The authorities of the country you're now in? I wouldn't be any surprised...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Wow, I had no idea that was happening! How super-creepy!

It gets worse.
Washington's Blog

Originally Posted by Hanna

Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true.

and in the Russian press too, at least that's what Lukashenko thinks - "Most of hysteria is produced by the Russian mass media."
Telegraf.by | Lukashenko Ordered to Close Foreign Media in Belarus

Надеюсь, Минск не был так уничтожен, как Москва (в смысле исторического облика).

1942 год, немецкая кинохроника.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

1942 год, немецкая кинохроника.

What, is that Minsk? Awful!

I think it's really sweet how Minsk has been rebuilt to be a truly elegant city...
I mean, most of the public buildings are very impressive. There are parks everywhere and the domestic houses in central Minsk are very pleasant.
Everything fits together, in harmony.
I guess city planners in the USSR got together and said "let's rebuild Minsk for these poor people, and make it really nice".
It's touching in a way.

If you look at British or German cities that were destroyed in the war, they are always EXTREMELY ugly - cheap 1950s houses, just thrown together with no esthetics. In Minsk, it's been carefully planned to look good.

О, нашел.

YouTube - ‪Рекорды луканомики. Поддон сахара - 1 минута 20 секунд‬‏

Originally Posted by mishau_

О, нашел.

YouTube - ‪Рекорды луканомики. Поддон сахара - 1 минута 20 секунд‬‏

I saw loads of movies like that. I just wonder how those who support the way the economy is done there could explain why the people are trying to get rid of their local currency in whatever way they just can - buying up goods in stores, foreign currencies in banks, etc.

Well I haven't seen any such scenes at all and I have been in the supermarket, the market place and shopping centres quite a fair bit.

I spoke with a really nice woman today when I was at Dududtki, a handicraft village.
She had been a chief economist there, but had retired (at age 55!!!) She gave me the VIP tour of the village, will write about that later.
But later we talked a bit about finances (she started it!!) and she said that her pension was 150 USD per month, but had got a new job despite being past pension age, which paid 800 USD per month. If I understood correctly, her rent was 80 USD per month. No luxury on that salary, but as long as you stay in Belarus and keep it basic, it should be possible to manage on that. She said she was disappointed at the currency devalution but she definitely did not want a revolution. She was actually a Russian, from somewhere in the Urals, but she is now a Belarussian citizen and she thought that Belarus is a better country to live in than Russia, based on her impressions from her annual trip to Russia to see family.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

How can you know that isn't true? Just because it hasn't happened to you? But I told you, exploring a country as a tourist doesn't give you a detail view on such things.

That is true, but the difference is, I have visited and you haven't. I think you should wait to jump to any conclusions. And remember that the people YOU speak with, are precisely the ones that are the most likely to be fed up with the current government. I.e. young well-educated people in Minsk. However they are not in the majority of the population.