Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

American propaganda is the best in the world, in my opinion. Because Americans, by and large, still believe their country is the "land of the free" and even as their freedoms are being taken away in the name of "security" and this contrived "war on terror" they support the government, practically in lockstep.

And yet, we now have "checkpoints" set up by the Department of Homeland Security on major highways, where you are required to pull over and give them your documentation and they will ask for samples of your blood.

We have a wall along the Mexican border which Senator John McCain recently bragged about, saying it is "bigger and better" than the Berlin Wall.

Our police agencies are starting to use drone aircraft for surveillance purposes. They have already been discussing arming the drone aircraft for use against US citizens too.

And those of us who speak out against these things are often called "unamerican" and "traitors."

I guess I am getting too old. I remember the old days when things like this were only supposed to happen in other countries. I was raised believing that these things only happened behind the Iron Curtain. I remember when Soviet spies requested asylum in the US and we granted it despite condemnation from the USSR.

But the US helped orchestrate the fall of the USSR (Charlie Wilson's war), and then the US stepped in to be the only remaining super-power, and rather than reduce weapons and defense spending we INCREASED it and went on the attack globally, all in the name of this "war on terror" which can never be won.

American propaganda is the best in the world because even the poorest American believes he is really just a millionaire in waiting, and that one day his ship will come in and he will be wealthy like Donald Trump. We believe that anyone can be famous or wealthy, if they just work hard enough. And maybe at one point that was true. I certainly believed it myself, growing up. But these days, the balance has shifted, and not everyone has the opportunity to make their dreams come true.

As George Orwell wrote in Animal Farm, "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." That book, by the way, was actually meant to symbolize the Russian revolution. But these days, it could just as easily symbolize America.

Snowden is young and idealistic, and he released the data to the public because he wanted us to know the vast extent of our government's surveillance operations. Most tellingly, he did not accept money for the data he released and if he had wanted, I am sure some government would have happily paid him off. So in my mind he is a hero, albeit a little impulsive and young. He probably should have planned the data release a little better so that he did not end up like Tom Hank in "The Terminal" - trapped in the transit zone at Sheremetevo with no passport and no country. Now he says that he is willing to accept Putin's conditions for asylum in Russia, which means he cannot release any more data. But if Putin accepts Snowden's asylum request, it could trigger another cold war between our countries, so it is a very tenuous position for Putin to be in and I do not envy him the decision.

America is the most powerful nation on earth, despite the growing economic problems we have on our domestic front, because our "defense" budget is ten times greater than Russia's. But our actions have changed and instead of exporting the American dream of freedom and back-yard barbeques we export death and destruction. Our government has grown arrogant and plays the part of "world police," sticking its nose into the affairs of other countries rather than fixing the growing problems we have back home.

I for one, fear the karma we are creating for ourselves...

Originally Posted by Deborski

American propaganda is the best in the world, in my opinion. Because Americans, by and large, still believe their country is the "land of the free" and even as their freedoms are being taken away in the name of "security" and this contrived "war on terror" they support the government, practically in lockstep.

And yet, we now have "checkpoints" set up by the Department of Homeland Security on major highways, where you are required to pull over and give them your documentation and they will ask for samples of your blood.

We have a wall along the Mexican border which Senator John McCain recently bragged about, saying it is "bigger and better" than the Berlin Wall.

Our police agencies are starting to use drone aircraft for surveillance purposes. They have already been discussing arming the drone aircraft for use against US citizens too.

And those of us who speak out against these things are often called "unamerican" and "traitors."

I guess I am getting too old. I remember the old days when things like this were only supposed to happen in other countries. I was raised believing that these things only happened behind the Iron Curtain. I remember when Soviet spies requested asylum in the US and we granted it despite condemnation from the USSR.

But the US helped orchestrate the fall of the USSR (Charlie Wilson's war), and then the US stepped in to be the only remaining super-power, and rather than reduce weapons and defense spending we INCREASED it and went on the attack globally, all in the name of this "war on terror" which can never be won.

American propaganda is the best in the world because even the poorest American believes he is really just a millionaire in waiting, and that one day his ship will come in and he will be wealthy like Donald Trump. We believe that anyone can be famous or wealthy, if they just work hard enough. And maybe at one point that was true. I certainly believed it myself, growing up. But these days, the balance has shifted, and not everyone has the opportunity to make their dreams come true.

As George Orwell wrote in Animal Farm, "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." That book, by the way, was actually meant to symbolize the Russian revolution. But these days, it could just as easily symbolize America.

Snowden is young and idealistic, and he released the data to the public because he wanted us to know the vast extent of our government's surveillance operations. Most tellingly, he did not accept money for the data he released and if he had wanted, I am sure some government would have happily paid him off. So in my mind he is a hero, albeit a little impulsive and young. He probably should have planned the data release a little better so that he did not end up like Tom Hank in "The Terminal" - trapped in the transit zone at Sheremetevo with no passport and no country. Now he says that he is willing to accept Putin's conditions for asylum in Russia, which means he cannot release any more data. But if Putin accepts Snowden's asylum request, it could trigger another cold war between our countries, so it is a very tenuous position for Putin to be in and I do not envy him the decision.

America is the most powerful nation on earth, despite the growing economic problems we have on our domestic front, because our "defense" budget is ten times greater than Russia's. But our actions have changed and instead of exporting the American dream of freedom and back-yard barbeques we export death and destruction. Our government has grown arrogant and plays the part of "world police," sticking its nose into the affairs of other countries rather than fixing the growing problems we have back home.

I for one, fear the karma we are creating for ourselves...

Karma isn't something a bunch of people share, everyone has a karma of their own; I like the individualistic approach that lets me think this way, and so do most of the Americans; do you, Deb?

Originally Posted by Deborski

But if Putin accepts Snowden's asylum request, it could trigger another cold war between our countries, so it is a very tenuous position for Putin to be in and I do not envy him the decision.

Are you sure? Your favourite network makes it sound like Putin is doing his own thing:

Russia in largest war games since Soviet era - CNN.com

I don't think the U.S. could do much to Russia if they decided to process Snowden's request. I disagree with the statement (said by whom? You or Hanna), that Putin should make some sort of statement and be enthusiastic about doing so. No, he doesn't have to make any statement but just go by the law (haha - I know). It's that simple. Instead, he's an opportunist, nothing else. He stands up to the U.S. about Syria (well, sorta) and other issues but not this one.

Both the Soviet Union and the USSA (if you watch youtube videos, many people call the USA this) are both good at propaganda. Putin still knows how to work it (former KGB / FSB after all).

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Are you sure? Your favourite network makes it sound like Putin is doing his own thing:

Russia in largest war games since Soviet era - CNN.com

I don't think the U.S. could do much to Russia if they decided to process Snowden's request. I disagree with the statement (said by whom? You or Hanna), that Putin should make some sort of statement and be enthusiastic about doing so. No, he doesn't have to make any statement but just go by the law (haha - I know). It's that simple. Instead, he's an opportunist, nothing else. He stands up to the U.S. about Syria (well, sorta) and other issues but not this one.

Both the Soviet Union and the USSA (if you watch youtube videos, many people call the USA this) are both good at propaganda. Putin still knows how to work it (former KGB / FSB after all).

Well, maybe Snowden had a feeling that exactly this would happen, whereas I imagined that Russia would actually think it was cool to give the USA a taste of its own medicine. The USA is forever on about "human rights" in Russian, tries to imagine military aggressiveness where there is none, and alluding that the media in Russia is state controlled "by Putin"....etc, etc.

Here, Russia could have been the country standing up for human rights, freedom of speech and against government corruption in another country.

However, it sounds like the fear of echoes from the Cold War, lukewarm interest and suspicion from the public in Russia, and the relationship with the "American partners" weighs stronger.

Whatever the Russian public thinks is fine by me -- maybe I was naive in thinking people would take an interest and support it.

Also, I think Edward Snowden was a little naive. If he wanted Russia's support, he should have gone straight there and appealed to the public. If he fancied a life in South America, then why go to Hong Kong first? I really don't get why he went there at all. Perhaps it was not planned out at all, but he simply reacted without having all the fact and weighing the alternative.

Originally Posted by Seraph

If any samples of blood for ANY reason have been drawn (hospital, dentist, clinics..etc) then guess again... The tentacles go way beyond what is generally known.

Have you actually got any proof for that? It sounds a bit far-fetched...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Have you actually got any proof for that? It sounds a bit far-fetched...

This is what stealth is all about.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Are you sure? Your favourite network makes it sound like Putin is doing his own thing:

Russia in largest war games since Soviet era - CNN.com

I don't think the U.S. could do much to Russia if they decided to process Snowden's request. I disagree with the statement (said by whom? You or Hanna), that Putin should make some sort of statement and be enthusiastic about doing so. No, he doesn't have to make any statement but just go by the law (haha - I know). It's that simple. Instead, he's an opportunist, nothing else. He stands up to the U.S. about Syria (well, sorta) and other issues but not this one.

Both the Soviet Union and the USSA (if you watch youtube videos, many people call the USA this) are both good at propaganda. Putin still knows how to work it (former KGB / FSB after all).

Erm.... I do not watch CNN.... not sure how/why you think it is "my favorite network." I've mainly been following The Guardian UK on the Snowden case, as well as some other UK and Russian news sites.