Thread: Does Communism still have a role to play, or is it dead?

When it comes to innovation and standard of living in the USSR, what are you comparing it with?
Africa or Germany? A black American in the South, a poor farmer in Kentucky or a company director in New York?

Most of the major Western powers got rich through imperialism, colonialism or slavery. Through exploiting peasants, workers and even child labourers. Then today, neo-colonialism in the form of sweatshops, forced bargain prices on third world produce etc. Or even starting a war or an invasion to get cheap access to the assets you need.

The USSR did not do any of that, really, at least not on a big scale, or outside its own borders.
So with less exploitation they achieved less wealth. Plus, the USSR "wasted" a lot of money that could have been spent on consumer comfort on supporting other socialist countries, on the arms race etc.

But it doesn't seem like an appalling standard of living, just not comparable to the richest Western countries at the time.

I visited both the USSR and Spain closely following each other in the mid 1980s when I was a kid. I remember thinking that the Soviets lived better than the most people in Spain. Just as a comparison, my own reflection, I have no stats to support that. Spain at the time had just come out of being a right wing dictatorship under Franco.

The USSR had many amazing achievements and inventions, just not in the area of consumer products.

Originally Posted by Hanna

When it comes to innovation and standard of living in the USSR, what are you comparing it with? Africa or Germany? A black American in the South, a poor farmer in Kentucky or a company director in New York?

I'm comparing the soviet-made calculators to the US-made calculators and the soviet-made cars with Italy-made cars. They are exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Most of the major Western powers got rich through imperialism, colonialism or slavery. Through exploiting peasants, workers and even child labourers.

Most of the major Western power riches which were gained that way were destroyed during the WWI and WWII. Japan have not done all that imperialist/colonialist/slavery stuff, but despite that it's one of the major innovative nations in the world.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Then today, neo-colonialism in the form of sweatshops, forced bargain prices on third world produce etc. Or even starting a war or an invasion to get cheap access to the assets you need.

I think we've been through that in several circles. The USSR had their peasants exploited in the way unimaginable to the sweatshop neo-colonialists. Those peasants had not even have the passports so they were unable to leave their place of living. And if they had done the trick to leave, they weren't accepted in the cities without the employment. And they were only hired to do the dirtiest job no regular city worker would do. The neo-colonialist sweatshops is fairly comparable to what it was.

Originally Posted by Hanna

The USSR had many amazing achievements and inventions, just not in the area of consumer products.

I agree. I think that what I said to nulle. There were a lot of inventions even in the consumer products area, but they were rarely implemented. Perhaps, one of the most famous example in the innovation area is the stealth technology which originates from Russia. It was rejected by the USSR bureaucrats, but it was successfully implemented by the US. We have all seen what effect the stealth bombers had.

Most of the major Western power riches which were gained that way were destroyed during the WWI and WWII. Japan have not done all that imperialist/colonialist/slavery stuff, but despite that it's one of the major innovative nations in the world.

Japan were major imperialists prior to WW2. They had all of Korea, Taiwan, Manchuria and lots of islands that I don't keep track of. They treated the Koreans and Manchurians more or less like slaves. Their know-how did not disappear just because they were defeated in the war.
After the war they did absolutely everything that was asked of them politically and they work fanatically hard. Hence they were able to create an export industry that did not start out as an inventor, but moved gradually towards that.