Thread: Dedovschina and brain drain

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Would you agree with that?

Nobody asked me when my time had come. ))) It doesn't matter. By law you MUST join the service unless you have a legal reason not to (health condition, family circumstances, education and some other). Evasion is considered a crime.

P.S. Even though I admit that there are fatalities in Russian military I find the figure of 5000/year a big BS. And even though I can only judge by my own experience in the army, I saw very little cases of hazing. Of course we had the 'deds' and there were some punches from them but nothing out of the ordinary. Punches were not all that hard and were administered for the lack of discipline mostly. (And some people just don't understand any other language but a good punch).
There are two kinds of units in Russian military. Where the commanders are weak the task of maintaining the discipline is usually taken by the 'deds'. But this situation is NOT universal. Our commanders were actually AFRAID that something might happen to us (up to a point of idiocy sometimes).

Originally Posted by Ramil

Nobody asked me when my time had come. ))) It doesn't matter. By law you MUST join the service unless you have a legal reason not to (health condition, family circumstances, education and some other). Evasion is considered a crime.

It might sound nice until they come up with something like a law prescribing to throw every 10th 18-year old male off a roof at a height of 30 metres, for instance. Anyway, forcing anyone to do something against their will is illegal, and this is what is a real crime. A law legalizing such kind of things is just a wrong law.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Anyway, forcing anyone to do something against their will is illegal, and this is what is a real crime. A law legalizing such kind of things is just a wrong law.

No, strictly speaking, it's not illegal. Many countries have conscription system. Besides, if you want to join ranks with me in building the world's anarchy, you're welcome, of course, but they're forcing you to pay taxes against your will, aren't they? No, don't tell me that you pay them willingly. ))) There are many things in laws of any country which oblige its subjects into doing (or not doing) something against their will and that's what law is -- something to put a limit to your actions. And you MUST obey the law or you'll be prosecuted. Don't tell me it's wrong. I find all laws wrong as the idea of state itself.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

It might sound nice until they come up with something like a law prescribing to throw every 10th 18-year old male off a roof at a height of 30 metres, for instance. Anyway, forcing anyone to do something against their will is illegal, and this is what is a real crime. A law legalizing such kind of things is just a wrong law.

You must be American since you know what's a "real crime" in countries other than your own, and what isn't...! It's their problem either way. FYI: This system is in use in some countries that are much more democratic than both the US and Russia, and voters (including the men affected) see no big problem with it.

I am no big fan of the Russian army (or conscription) but I no difficulty understanding why 1) Russians feel they have to have an army and 2) they have had to use conscription to get the amount of soldiers they need to do the job properly. Anyone who ever looked in a history book would know that.

Plus, as people mentioned here, in Russia it's clearly quite simple to get out of it anyway so it's a theoretical problem only. In smaller countries that option doesn't exist, since every person counts.

Incidentally, without the Russian conscription based army WW2 Germany would probably have won in WW2.

But it seems Russia ought to improve the conditions for the soldiers a bit.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Incidentally, without the Russian conscription based army WW2 Germany would probably have won in WW2.

This is not strictly speaking true. At war-time a full mobilization is conducted which means that every able-bodied male aged from 18 to 60 is joining the army (I suspect that the full mobilization law exists even in the USA). These situations are extremely rare, fortunately, but in 1941 there was such a situation.

Originally Posted by Ramil

This is not strictly speaking true. At war-time a full mobilization is conducted which means that every able-bodied male aged from 18 to 60 is joining the army (I suspect that the full mobilization law exists even in the USA). These situations are extremely rare, fortunately, but in 1941 there was such a situation.

But it probably helps if these men are at least partially prepared.

It seems like Dedovshcinina may be responsible for only 500 a year:
http://teachpro.ru/source/obz11/Html/der11184.htm
. Mayeb less: Russian Army Suicides: Brutal Hazing -- and Organ Harvesting? - TIME