What do real Russians actually think about communism, and the U.S.S.R's performance/quality of life?
What do you say to: "Communism can never work, because humans do not naturally think altruistically, they think for themselves."
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What do real Russians actually think about communism, and the U.S.S.R's performance/quality of life?
What do you say to: "Communism can never work, because humans do not naturally think altruistically, they think for themselves."
That is a very good question. It is one that I have wondered about a lot.
There are very few Russians in my country, and I have never met one in real life (although I did see a Russian family from afar - I was told later that they were Russians).
Long, detailed, answers to this question would be great!
Were you just on a trip to outer space? The Russian economy is floundering and the neo-Soviet tools put all their eggs in one basket - mostly everything into oil. I chat with lots of Russians and met several on here and vk. There's a lot of Russians who are desperate to leave. Of course, you have brainwashed citizens who worship at the ground of whatever the leadership does.Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonndeli2
But, much of it collapsed and it is about to again. I'm not saying the West is better and what people tend to do is think that any critic is automatically saying 'the West' or capitalism (American definition of) is better which is another false assumption. Many Westerners who perceive such positive attributes about post-modern Russia are just ignorant and spend too much time watching RT. 'It is much industrialized.' LOL! Where?!? :bigsmile:
Well, I've seen a few Russians saying they'd like the old Soviet Union to come back, because "it was better that way". It's like they don't know that communism...Doesn't...Work... And capitalism in the grand scheme of things is way more equal and fair.
I live where like 30% of the people my age are (somewhat unknown) Russian. Sadly, about half are just being raised as Americans, not knowing about the Soviet Union or Russia, not speaking Russian, even valuing what Americans value.
What's the age of those Russians?Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
The other ironic thing I find is that so many Russians worship Western stuff. Even moreso than many Westerners. They think everything in the West is better or a paradise. Yet, these citizens and pro-communist /pro-neo-Soviet/pro-Putin etc. citizens never seem to speak to each other. Do they ever have a conversation with each other? LOL! It doesn't seem like it. Check out vk to get a sense of this pro-West worship. Yet, these neo-Soviet comrades spend all their time saying that Westerners 'don't know anything' or whatever their complaint is. Maybe, look in your own backyard, comrades.
Teenage Highschooler age. When I'm on vk, I don't know if I'm just looking in the wrong place, but I only see anti-American propaganda. Attachment 1139
Communism is a vague idea, and had nothing to do with USSR except the first word in the name of our (sole) party (and members of that party were called communists).
So I don't think about communism - difficult to think about such mysterious thing.
The only thing I was told about communism - it is a distant but splendid future for entire planet, something like another religion without any rituals (communism will come by itself some day, so why bother? Passive faith, so to speak)
I see what you mean. What about a person not working as hard as another, because it won't benefit him any more? Isn't it unfair that a person working way less than me would get just as much?
Russian economy floundering? No. The West has attempted to destroy it. The Russian GDP more than doubled since the end of the 1990's under Putin and Medvedev. Злорадство?Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Russian
The Russian economy consists of gas, oil, auto manufacturing, mining, diamond mining, telecommunications equipment, aerospace manufacturing, paper, lumber, agriculture, robotics, ship building, fishing, defense weapon systems, banking, etc etc.
Economy of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaQuote:
Russia has more academic graduates than any other country in Europe. (And world leader in percentage of population with associate degree or higher: 54%, compared to 31% in UK).
Like it or no, Russia is - and will continue to be - a vital player in the global economy and a very important asset on the world stage.
LOL! Especially "9. будить медведей, чтобы их сфотографировать.". Poor bears, lol! I think that list is more for lulz than propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
1. Capitalist mentality - Live and let die.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
2. Communist/socialist mentality - Live and let live.
That's an extreme comparison but it's basically solid.
Anyway, I don't really believe that Союз Советских Социалистических Республик was a communist State. Soviet basically only means "council" and Socialist totally does mean "Socialist". The USSR was an escape from cruel treatment and hyper taxation. It transferred ownership from greedy oligarchs to the common people. Well imo, what's fair = when all working people are treated with equal respect and equal rewards.
Is it the fault of the mentally challenged that they can't achieve the skills to build industries or manage the banks? And if they work hard then should they be penalized for being disabled? I don't think so. So am I a "commie"? No. It's only that I equally respect all people who contribute to the socio-economic world that we live in.
Doctors Without Borders? How abuot People Without Borders (borders like classes based on skill levels or sheer luck).
But yeah, I do think it's very interesting to learn more about the USSR and to learn about it from people who lived there. I don't really know what form of government to call it but it did exist and it was responsible for Russia becoming a major player on the world stage.
You don't understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
Work is supposed to bring joy and happiness to you. If somebody works less than you, it's his loss.
Clever, isn't it? :)
Of course. You're conditioned to believe in fairy tales. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmixiv
I know some who would say:
-What about the millions that died under the U.S.S.R?
-Humans naturally work in self interest, only massive amounts of propaganda can attempt to change that.
-A person working harder should get more reward based on his work, he is working harder, and contributing to society more.
I presented the idea that although the Soviet Union may not have been great, it did (and I quote from a russian) "bring us from third world country to nuclear superpower in 30 years.". The response was... Sort of that that (<-- ENGLISH WHY) wasn't true.
And now they're going back to near-third world status from neo-Soviet/commie ideas and policies. What goes around, comes around.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
you forgot to mention it also stole (transformed) ownership of millions of people who were not oligarchs. even 'common' people with only little farmlandownership etc lost all their belongings and in the process many families were cruelly destroyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
Communism can never work, because it is physically impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
I speak with russians every day and these are the conclusions I ended up:Quote:
Originally Posted by xXHoax
- Do you liked communism?:
1. Poor Russians feel nostalgic for communism for obvious reasons ...
2. Rich Russians hate communism for obvious reasons ... expect if they feel threaten by Mr. Putin.
3. The middle class is still confused ... but after the sanctions communism gains some of its old glory.
- Why communism is not so popular in our days?
Disappointed ex-communist politicians and supporters advanced a lighter version of communism called democratic socialism or social democrary (based on the contemporary political terminology). This new socialism has moderated all the problems associated with the extremist aspects of communism (e.g.common ownership, elimination of private initiative) by:
(a) suggesting a fair system of redistribution of capitals within the economy through a progressive system of taxation
(b) creating a social net for the poorest (e.g. subsidies, unemployment benefits etc).
(c) condemning monopolies through a strict regulation system
(d) creating a set of rules protecting the rights of workers.
Moderate supporters of communism in the low and middle social classes decided to abandon it by founding a shelter on this more "civilized" and "convenient" ideology called Socialism.
- Why USSR failed:
1. What Russians say:
(a) Unfair economy war from Western World.
(b) Conspiracy (which is usually accompanied by the expression: that a..hole Gorpatsov betrayed us for a buck a dollars!)
2. What westerns say:
(a) Soviets were producing nuclear weapons and sending men to space but on the shelters of their supermarkets they had only 20% of the goods the Europeans had in their supermarkets.
(b) They were bullying all Eastern Europe nations ... what you expected?
3. What the economists say:
(a) Planned Economy has simply failed because was not able to meet the needs of simple people.
If I am wrong on anything please correct me. Simple language please.
Just in case: people in USSR were not equally payed. Peasants had minimal salaries, I think, whilst miners, for example, had huge salaries (in relation to the average). Renowned singers, scientists made much more money than "ordinary" ones. Some people took one-off tasks, which were well paid (at the time I was in kindergarten, the father of my girlfriend painted a local TV tower, and in several days got as much as my parents would earn for half-year). So strong, enterprising men definitely were richer. There were a lot of skews in those payment schemes, of course.
Some were stealing goods from the very place where they worked. For example, peasants were stealing fodder, etc.
Antonio, I heard only one explanation of such sudden demise of USSR: real chiefs of the state (not Gorbachyov) decided that it's no more amusing to play modest men with lofty ideals, and it's time to try something new.
Are you sure you meant to say here what you actually said? =))Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmixiv
What I meant to say: подружка :"":
Sorry if it had confused someone.
some start early.....:smilegrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
I know at least three forms of communism that actually worked/work.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox
1. Primitive communism that is the primitive-communal system of primitive tribes.
2. War (military) communism which is practically the same thing as "mobilization economy" - a type of economy many different countries used during wars.
3. Relationships within a family.
And none of these is what the heavily advertised communism (by the Soviets) was supposed to look like. The first one's just a temporary union of a few hunters, that was to ease the food obtaining process. The second one is robbery of private property by the state. The third one's the perfect family, but even if there are those, that relationship never goes out of the family. The human nature isn't really ready to love themselves and everyone else equally, to make those principles work. The way I see it: everyone would be trying to benefit at the cost of everyone else (the easiest way to do that - do nothing and claim your needs to be as high as you can imagine), and that would make the economy collapse very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeMak
There's a good joke, however, that explained how the Soviets really saw communism.
Socialism. The sign on the front door of a store says, "No butter today."
Communism. The sign has been changed to say, "No need in butter today."
I think you keep confusing communism with power of a corrupt government and planned economy. But it's understandable because that's what was in propaganda that you have been eating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Everything you disagree with is propaganda. The politburo of hddscan has spoken. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by hddscan
It's not me, it's Wikipedia. No doubt it is paid by Kremlin.Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Russian
I cannot answer for those who highly advertised communism to you, I didn't. As for "just a temporary union of a few hunters" this "temporary" state lasted for hundreds of thousands years, comparing with the history of capitalism, which is hardly more than 3 centuries, it's almost an eternity. As for a state "robbing" its citizens, when the very survival of the nation is at stake, the "robbery" can be justified. And as for families - it's not a bout "perfect" ones, it's about ordinary ones. A family cannot be built on any other type of relation, otherwise it's not a family, maybe a partnership of a kind, but definitely not a family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Now, what about the place of communism in the ideology of the Soviet state, it never declared it achieved building communism. When I was a schoolboy my teachers said we were living in a society of "developed socialism". And communism always was regarded as a vague remote perspective for the future. The only Soviet leader who dared to promise to "build communism in a 20 years term" was Khrushchev, and he was not famous for adequate behavior.
