Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Chernobyl disaster (the grim anniversary)

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай Scorpio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    1,505
    Rep Power
    13

    Chernobyl disaster (the grim anniversary)

    Strangely, nobody is discussing it here. If anybody wants to express his/her opinion, come on. My point of view is somethink like:

    - Is Chernobyl disaster a argument against nuclear energetics in general? No.

    - Is it the argument against total idiots in control of nuclear facilities? It is.
    Кр. -- сестр. тал.

  2. #2
    Завсегдатай Scorpio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    1,505
    Rep Power
    13
    Gorbachev about Chernobyl, trying to white himself as hardly as he can:

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/gorbachev3
    Кр. -- сестр. тал.

  3. #3
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    I think there was some brief discussion of it somwhere on the General section of the forum...
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  4. #4
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    34
    Rep Power
    10
    I hardened to the view in two subjects:
    1) Innefficiency and stupidity of various soviet leaders.
    2) Self-sacrifice of soviet people and ability to acts of bravery.

    I was shocked when I knew that people of injured cities and villages had known about the tragedy one day later. Officials really didn`t kow what to do and couldn`t organise evacuation of nearby cities. Many people got large doses of radiation because didn`t know about the danger of disaster and came to the reactor to see the place of explosion. Maybe officials were afraid of panic, but people would panic before such danger any way. They could minimize the level of possible panic.

    I admire the people who tried to minimize the aftermath of tragedy and lost their health. They are true heroes and it`s a great pity that officials and our people have already forgotten their acts of bravery

    The experience of Chernobyl doesn`t stop the developing of nuclear energy and expansion of nuclear plants but I hope it warned our nuclear staff against experiments with the operational nuclear reactor.
    Please correct my mistakes in English
    I like pigs. Dogs look UP to us. Cats look DOWN on us. Pigs treat us as EQUALS. (Winston Churchill)

  5. #5
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    257
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio
    Gorbachev about Chernobyl, trying to white himself as hardly as he can:

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/gorbachev3
    I think he should keep silence after all and don't even try to vindicate himself so frantically. Virtually nobody respects him and his opinion in Russia.
    Long time ago I had a talk about Chrnobyl with a professor of nuclear power plant faculty and he told me that they had just played with nuclear reactor making some stupid experiment on it.
    Единственное, что люди любят давать бесплатно - это советы.

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Seventh
    Posts
    4,113
    Rep Power
    15
    Also, people are always talking about Ukraine and Chernobyl', when most of the radiation went into Belarus', and Belarus' is thought to have the highest number of affected people. Chernobyl' is practically on the border between Ukraine and Belarus' and unfortunately for Belarus', the wind was blowing north.
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
    In Post-Soviet Russia internet porn downloads YOU!

  7. #7
    Завсегдатай kalinka_vinnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sunnyvale, Cali
    Posts
    5,771
    Rep Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Also, people are always talking about Ukraine and Chernobyl', when most of the radiation went into Belarus', and Belarus' is thought to have the highest number of affected people. Chernobyl' is practically on the border between Ukraine and Belarus' and unfortunately for Belarus', the wind was blowing north.
    ... and the rivers flowing south back to the Ukraine...
    Hei, rett norsken min og du er død.
    I am a notourriouse misspeller. Be easy on me.
    Пожалуйста! Исправляйте мои глупые ошибки (но оставьте умные)!
    Yo hablo español mejor que tú.
    Trusnse kal'rt eturule sikay!!! ))

  8. #8
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Also, people are always talking about Ukraine and Chernobyl', when most of the radiation went into Belarus', and Belarus' is thought to have the highest number of affected people. Chernobyl' is practically on the border between Ukraine and Belarus' and unfortunately for Belarus', the wind was blowing north.
    ... and the rivers flowing south back to the Ukraine...
    ...and the free-range alligators that roam back north into Belarus... I don't think it's really necessary to say one side got it worse than the other. The fact of the matter is that they both got clobbered and that really, really sucks, fictious alligators aside.
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  9. #9
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Nove Zamky, Slovakia
    Posts
    131
    Rep Power
    10
    But the worst on this fact is, the west countries are scared. Here, in Slovakia, no country from former "west block" do not allow us to use nucler power plants in our counntry, they say because Chernobyl. But their saying about Chernobyl is only saying under colour of they plan to sell us the energy - so they are trying (they are trying very good - Austia exspecially) to prohibite "no so safety reactors" as is ours.
    Я ЕСТЬ потому что мы ЕСТЬ. Чтобы были МЫ -- ЕСТЬ Я.
    ПРОЛЕТАРИИ ВСЕХ СТРАН, СОЕДИНЯЙТЕСЬ!

  10. #10
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pejko
    But the worst on this fact is, the west countries are scared. Here, in Slovakia, no country from former "west block" do not allow us to use nucler power plants in our counntry, they say because Chernobyl. But their saying about Chernobyl is only saying under colour of they plan to sell us the energy - so they are trying (they are trying very good - Austia exspecially) to prohibite "no so safety reactors" as is ours.
    Skin them. "Give us money or we'll ask Russians to build us a nuclear power plant."
    Frankly, all these cries about the ecology - it's just an excuse to forbid you to have an energy of your own in order to make you purchase it from them. They HAVE nuclear plants you don't. Moreover - nuclear power is one of the most "pure" kinds of energy. Everything works in a closed cycle, nuclear power produces no pollution at all. Of course, when a disaster like Chernobyl happens people suffer, but no power - no industry, no industry - no money.
    No money - we may celebrate the birth of yet another banana republic.

    P.S. I sorrow deeply for all those who had died because of that catastrophe but it happenned mostly due to a human idiocy, not mere some technical malfunction.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай mishau_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ордынская Московия
    Posts
    2,451
    Rep Power
    12
    Virtually nobody respects him and his opinion in Russia.
    Gorby dealt with the Soviet legacy. And now, as the soviet power is again coming to its own, those who have taken part in liquidation of the aftermath are comletely forgotten by the state.
    English Edition

    В обычных странах церковь отделена от государства, а в России - от Бога.

  12. #12
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Nove Zamky, Slovakia
    Posts
    131
    Rep Power
    10
    Ramil, you have got it.

    Let's live bannanas, VIVA la bannanas, VIVA nucler-free bannanas at all.
    Я ЕСТЬ потому что мы ЕСТЬ. Чтобы были МЫ -- ЕСТЬ Я.
    ПРОЛЕТАРИИ ВСЕХ СТРАН, СОЕДИНЯЙТЕСЬ!

  13. #13
    Завсегдатай kalinka_vinnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sunnyvale, Cali
    Posts
    5,771
    Rep Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by Pejko
    But the worst on this fact is, the west countries are scared. Here, in Slovakia, no country from former "west block" do not allow us to use nucler power plants in our counntry, they say because Chernobyl. But their saying about Chernobyl is only saying under colour of they plan to sell us the energy - so they are trying (they are trying very good - Austia exspecially) to prohibite "no so safety reactors" as is ours.
    Skin them. "Give us the money or we'll ask the Russians to build us a nuclear power plant."
    Frankly, all these cries about the enviroment - it's just an excuse to forbid you to have energy of your own in order to make you purchase it from them. They HAVE nuclear plants, you don't. Moreover - nuclear power is one of the most "pure" kinds of energy. Everything works in a closed cycle, nuclear power produces no pollution at all. Of course, when a disaster like Chernobyl happens, people suffer, but no power - no industry, no industry - no money.
    No money - we may celebrate the birth of yet another banana republic.

    P.S. I am deeply sad for all those who had died because of that catastrophe, but it happenned mostly due to a human idiocy, not merely because of some technical malfunction.
    1) Nuclear reactor produce pollution. It is called nuclear waste, which is almost impossible to process. Current method is to dig it down and let it be there for 100000 years until it is harmless.
    2) According to the sources I read about the Chernobyl disaster, a design fault was also a contributing factor to the disaster. Not just human idiocy.http://www.chernobyl.co.uk/ "The RBMK reactor type used at Chernobyl suffers from instability at low power and thus may experience a rapid , uncontrollable power increase. Although other reactor types have this problem they incorporate design features to stop instability from occurring."
    Hei, rett norsken min og du er død.
    I am a notourriouse misspeller. Be easy on me.
    Пожалуйста! Исправляйте мои глупые ошибки (но оставьте умные)!
    Yo hablo español mejor que tú.
    Trusnse kal'rt eturule sikay!!! ))

  14. #14
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee WI
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    10
    the disaster was caused by the incompetence of comunisim
    Long live america the land of great and free people

  15. #15
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by patriot
    the disaster was caused by the incompetence of comunisim
    Where does Comunisim lie on the Periodic table? Certainly, you couldn't have meant "communism."
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  16. #16
    ST
    ST is offline
    Властелин ST's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Russia, Novosibirsk
    Posts
    1,351
    Rep Power
    11
    вот тут неплохой сайт есть на эту тему: http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddo ... icles.html
    На iXBT его обсуждали...
    The bear looked at the car, and reflections of fire danced in his eyes. He knew what to do.

  17. #17
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by Pejko
    But the worst on this fact is, the west countries are scared. Here, in Slovakia, no country from former "west block" do not allow us to use nucler power plants in our counntry, they say because Chernobyl. But their saying about Chernobyl is only saying under colour of they plan to sell us the energy - so they are trying (they are trying very good - Austia exspecially) to prohibite "no so safety reactors" as is ours.
    Skin them. "Give us the money or we'll ask the Russians to build us a nuclear power plant."
    Frankly, all these cries about the enviroment - it's just an excuse to forbid you to have energy of your own in order to make you purchase it from them. They HAVE nuclear plants, you don't. Moreover - nuclear power is one of the most "pure" kinds of energy. Everything works in a closed cycle, nuclear power produces no pollution at all. Of course, when a disaster like Chernobyl happens, people suffer, but no power - no industry, no industry - no money.
    No money - we may celebrate the birth of yet another banana republic.

    P.S. I am deeply sad for all those who had died because of that catastrophe, but it happenned mostly due to a human idiocy, not merely because of some technical malfunction.
    1) Nuclear reactor produce pollution. It is called nuclear waste, which is almost impossible to process. Current method is to dig it down and let it be there for 100000 years until it is harmless.
    Waste != Pollution
    Nuclear reactor doesn't pollute environment. What I cannot say about some other energy sources. And those several barrels of nuclear waste doesn't make all that difference compared to pollution produced by cars for example.


    2) According to the sources I read about the Chernobyl disaster, a design fault was also a contributing factor to the disaster. Not just human idiocy.http://www.chernobyl.co.uk/ "The RBMK reactor type used at Chernobyl suffers from instability at low power and thus may experience a rapid , uncontrollable power increase. Although other reactor types have this problem they incorporate design features to stop instability from occurring."
    Source:
    http://stopatom.slavutich.kiev.ua/1-2-1b.htm

    Here's some excerpts:
    2.1.6.1. Выводы комиссии, представленные на совещании экспертов МАГАТЭ в августе 1986 г.
    Изложенные ниже выводы были первым официальным документом, в котором на основании анализа хода событий, предшествовавших аварии, сделана попытка выделить основные ее причины. Такой анализ показал, что происшедшая авария была связана с вводом избыточной реактивности. Отмечено, что конструкция реакторной установки предусматривала защиту от подобного типа аварий с учетом физических особенностей реактора, включая положительный паровой коэффициент реактивности. Технические средства защиты и управления должны были обеспечить безопасность реактора при превышении мощности и уменьшении периода разгона, при появлении различных неисправностей в его работе.
    Кроме технических средств защиты, имелись также строгие правила и порядок ведения технологического процесса на АЭС, определяемые регламентом эксплуатации энергоблока. К числу наиболее важных правил относятся требования о недопустимости снижения оперативного запаса реактивности ниже 30 стержней.
    В процессе подготовки и проведения испытания турбогенератора персонал отключил ряд технических средств защиты и нарушил важнейшие положения регламента эксплуатации, касающиеся безопасного ведения технологического процесса. Основным мотивом в поведении персонала было стремление быстрее закончить испытания. Нарушение установленного порядка при подготовке и проведении испытаний, нарушение программы испытаний, небрежность в управлении реактором свидетельствуют о недостаточном понимании персоналом особенностей протекания технологических процесса в ядерном реакторе и о потере чувства опасности.
    Вместе с тем, разработчики реакторной установки не предусмотрели создание защитных систем безопасности, способных предотвратить аварию при имевшемся наборе преднамеренных отключений технических средств защиты и нарушений регламента эксплуатации, так как считали, что такое сочетание событий невозможно.
    Сделан вывод, что первопричиной аварии явилось крайне маловероятное сочетание нарушений порядка и режима эксплуатации, допущенное персоналом энергоблока. Катастрофические размеры авария приобрела в связи с тем, что реактор был переведен персоналом в такое нерегламентное состояние, в котором существенно усилилось влияние положительного коэффициента реактивности на рост мощности.
    Таким образом, в изложенных выводах основная вина за аварию возлагается на персонал АЭС. Перечислен ряд нарушений, допущенных операторами в ходе испытания турбогенератора, впервые упомянуто о существовании положительного коэффициента реактивности реактора. Однако оставлен в стороне вопрос о том, почему оказалось возможным такое "крайне маловероятное сочетание нарушений порядка и режима эксплуатации" [1] реактора и кто несет за это ответственность.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  18. #18
    Завсегдатай Scorpio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    1,505
    Rep Power
    13
    The first and last cause of accident was the "human factor" (e.g. the idiotic experiment they were conducting).

    Maybe some design faults were present, but I don't think it's important factor. I'm not an expert in nuclear energetics, but there's a lot of RBMK-1000 nuclear reactors still working in Russia and other countries -- and there is nothing wrong with them. If operated properly, they are absolutely safe.

    About the posiible reasons of "Chernobyl histeria" Pejko wrote above:

    But the worst on this fact is, the west countries are scared. Here, in Slovakia, no country from former "west block" do not allow us to use nucler power plants in our counntry, they say because Chernobyl. But their saying about Chernobyl is only saying under colour of they plan to sell us the energy - so they are trying (they are trying very good - Austia exspecially) to prohibite "no so safety reactors" as is ours.
    -- absolutely correct.
    Кр. -- сестр. тал.

  19. #19
    Завсегдатай Scorpio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    1,505
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Спасибо за источник, потом почитаю внимательно.

    Вдобавок к изложенному: от одного, вроде бы информированного человека, я слышал, что с реактором все-таки было что-то не так (избыточное содержание какого-то изотопа йода, или что-то в этом роде). Это послужило еще одной *косвенной* причиной аварии -- из-за этого как раз "разогреть" реактор как следует не удавалось, поэтому персонал решился на отключение АЗ. Это, понятно, не оправдание их идиотизму, но хоть какая-то попытка его разумно объяснить.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Однако оставлен в стороне вопрос о том, почему оказалось возможным такое "крайне маловероятное сочетание нарушений порядка и режима эксплуатации" [1] реактора и кто несет за это ответственность.
    Как говорили герои бессмертного романа, тоже мне бином Ньютона. Уверен, что очень хотели порадовать начальство и побыстрее (наверное, к 1-му Мая) отрапортовать об успешных испытаниях турбогенератора. Порадовали.
    Кр. -- сестр. тал.

  20. #20
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio

    Вдобавок к изложенному: от одного, вроде бы информированного человека, я слышал, что с реактором все-таки было что-то не так (избыточное содержание какого-то изотопа йода, или что-то в этом роде).
    Это называется йодная яма, вот очень хорошая ссылка, рассказывающая про принципы действия реактора РБMК и причины аварии в Чернобыле:
    http://ufolog.nm.ru/chernob0.htm

    Там, чуть-ли не посекундно восстановлены события 26 апреля 1986 г.

    Как говорили герои бессмертного романа, тоже мне бином Ньютона. Уверен, что очень хотели порадовать начальство и побыстрее (наверное, к 1-му Мая) отрапортовать об успешных испытаниях турбогенератора. Порадовали.
    Именно отрапортовать. И именно к 1 мая.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
    By Haksaw in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: April 22nd, 2007, 08:25 PM
  2. Today is 100-th anniversary of Sergey Korolyev
    By Ramil in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: January 20th, 2007, 09:48 PM
  3. The 89-th anniversary of the Revolution
    By Ramil in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 149
    Last Post: November 16th, 2006, 01:51 PM
  4. A grim global prognosis
    By Scorpio in forum Politics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 13th, 2006, 01:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary