Thread: Chechnya

I'm just wondering what all your thoughts on the situation in Chechnya are and what the general attitude is toward Chechens in Russia (however impossible it may be to generalize on that).

Also, is the Chechen language allowed to be taught in Russia? Are there communities of Chechens in Russia (the same way, for instance, there are Tatars)?

What is your reaction to people who try to learn Chechen? Do some Russians learn Chechen out of academic interest - is it offered in any universities?

Most people try to overlook or ignore Chechnya its not something people talk about everyday like Americans do with Iraq. Chechnya is now, for the most part rebuilt and 'stable'.

See / Read

Chechnya today- winter http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=322179

and in summer
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=393612

A very huge contrast from say about 5 - 10 years ago
http://www.pbase.com/igor01/chechnya

Sure there are still the little pockets of retarded resistance fighters who think that blowing up a commuter bus full of students and babushkas on their way to the market will make some huge difference, but Chechnya, for the most part is doing well.

what the general attitude is toward Chechens in Russia (however impossible it may be to generalize on that).

Its hard to tell who is "Chechen" and who isn't. There are literally hundreds of races of people living in the caucus region area. Some are darker skinned (they tend to get the brunt of insults) and some are nearly indistinguishable from Russians. And there there are the ethnic Russians who live there but are Muslim and feel more closely connected with the other Muslims in that region than with Russia or non-Muslim Russians.

Look at Shamil Basayaev. He was white (though ethnically chechen), Served in the Soviet army, Lived in Moscow for some time before moving back to Chechnya and trying to be a hero. If you shaved off his huge beard you'd never even know he was from Chechnya.

Though to answer your question... I mean its hard to say. Just like in every country, different people will have different opinions about people who are different than them.

I doubt a vast majority of Russians have any personal problem with Chechnya itself. Thousands of Chechens fled the region while, yet others from Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Iran, Georgia Saudi Arabia fled into Chechnya to help fight against the Russians in a "holy war" like we see all over the place these days. Its the people inside Chechnya, no-matter what race they come from who choose to fight against Russia that people will have a problem with.

As far as learning the Chechen language : )))

I highly highly doubt that anyone would learn this and I doubt that it is taught anywhere outside of Chechnya. Even if someone was interested in Chechnya and wanted to convert to Islam, they would be better off just learning Arabic instead.

Every republic in the North Caucasus pretty much has its own languages. Chechens speak Chechen, Ingush speak Ingush, Bashkirs speak Bashkir, Ossetians speak Ossetian, Dagistanis speak Dagistani.

When the school in Beslan, North Ossetia was taken over by the terrorists in 2004 they demanded everyone speak in only Russian because the local language (and I mean local, probably no one outside a 100 mile radius speaks it) was Ossetian and obviously the terrorists did not understand it.

It's possible to take private lessons of Chechen in Moscow (one of the available tutors is Зулай Хамидова, a famous Chechen philologist, who works very hard for revival of the language). There's also a school (a club?), where Chechen language, culture, arts, etc. are taught, but it works occasionally, probably because of the lack of interest, or maybe other (political?) reasons.

As far as I know 99% of Chechen learners are Russian-speaking ethnic Chechens, who want to learn more about their culture.

Since, according to the mentioned above philologist, Хамидова, most of the Chechens can't speak Chechen, and those who can speak, often can't read or write and/or use a bastardised version of language (changed phonetically after years of coexistence with Russian), there's almost zero practical value in learning Chechen for Russians.

It would be hard to find anybody to talk to anyway, unless they'd like to chat with terrorists, who are probably more adept in Chechen than average Chechen resident.

Chechen in Moscow (one of the available tutors is Зулай Хамидова, a famous Chechen philologist, who works very hard for revival of the language). There's also a school (a club?), where Chechen language, culture, arts, etc. are taught, but it works occasionally, probably because of the lack of interest, or maybe other (political?) reasons.

Good point! That was something I forgot to mention.

Probably people who would take Chechen classes are Chechens who wanted to learn or re-learn their own Languages.

There might be some schools or some kind of educational programs just for chechens outside of chechnya where lessons are mostly in chechen. Like they have American schools and Germans schools in Moscow and stuff. But as far as the average Boris and Olga Russian, I bet you couldn't find one who wanted to learn this language.

Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar

I'm just wondering what all your thoughts on the situation in Chechnya are...

In brief, situation in Chechnya is better, than in most neighbouring territories of North Caucasus. Compared with Ingushetia or Daghestan, Chechnya definitely looks better (and much safer).

Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar

and what the general attitude is toward Chechens in Russia (however impossible it may be to generalize on that).

Generally, not very good attitude, of course. (But it really hard to generalize, and anyway, there are different occupations against chechens, really.)

Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar

Also, is the Chechen language allowed to be taught in Russia?

A bit of strange question: which language is taught to chechen children at schools?

Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar

Are there communities of Chechens in Russia (the same way, for instance, there are Tatars)?

Almost any huge city have a significant minority of Chechens. In Moscow there is chechen community of nearly 100,000, something like that (if I remember right).

Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar

What is your reaction to people who try to learn Chechen? Do some Russians learn Chechen out of academic interest - is it offered in any universities?

The question of "reaction" is, again, a bit weird. The only possible reaction is, probably, admiration of their bravery: the Chechen language is very hard. And, I'm afraid, not much useful anywhere except Chechnya, so, probably, it may be learned mostly from academic interest.
(I think, in major universities, like MSU, may be a cathedra devoted to North Caucasean languages; at faculty of Philology, for example. Not sure about MSU, but it is quite possible.)

На чеченском форуме меня забанили навечно. С формулировкой "ты бесполезен, иди на свои форумы".
В нашей деревне есть две чеченки. Одна сидит за убийство и ограбление пожилого почтальона (скоро выйдет), вторая пьёт и орёт на всех.
Но всё равно, как все интеллигентные люди, верю в то, что они милые и добрые внутри... Ну, в основном. Пока сам по башке не получу.

Originally Posted by Юрка

как все интеллигентные люди

На форум Гоблина тебе тоже дорога закрыта.

Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar

I'm just wondering what all your thoughts on the situation in Chechnya are and what the general attitude is toward Chechens in Russia (however impossible it may be to generalize on that).

Mortal enemies (mostly from chechen side). Russians generally hate and despise them. Chechens want all Russians dead in graves (read any chechen forum). Well, who in the world likes Chechens? They deport them even from the EU.

Are there communities of Chechens in Russia (the same way, for instance, there are Tatars)?

Plenty.

What is your reaction to people who try to learn Chechen? Do some Russians learn Chechen out of academic interest - is it offered in any universities?

i Don't care. Never heard of any Russian who would want to learn Chechen.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

На форум Гоблина тебе тоже дорога закрыта.

Это что за зверь? И что там перетирают?

Originally Posted by Юрка

Originally Posted by BappaBa

На форум Гоблина тебе тоже дорога закрыта.

Это что за зверь? И что там перетирают?

Твой земляк. Там любят "пройтись" по советским интеллигентам. Вот, например http://oper.ru/news/read.php?t=1051601035&name=Olexiy

[quote=Vincent Tailors]

Originally Posted by "Trzeci_Wymiar":1xtqgvdl

I'm just wondering what all your thoughts on the situation in Chechnya are and what the general attitude is toward Chechens in Russia (however impossible it may be to generalize on that).

Mortal enemies (mostly from chechen side). Russians generally hate and despise them. Chechens want all Russians dead in graves (read any chechen forum). Well, who in the world likes Chechens? They deport them even from the EU.[/quote:1xtqgvdl]
Man, Vincent Tailors and his issues are EVERYWHERE!

Vincent Is american yeah?

Originally Posted by uno

Vincent Is american yeah?

Nope, he's Russian -).

Having read that raving hate filled rant I've come to the conclusion Vincent Tailors is no better than a common skinhead. Deededee.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Having read that raving hate filled rant I've come to the conclusion Vincent Tailors is no better than a common skinhead. Deededee.

His position on the matter very closely to the skinhead's position. So in general I agreed...

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Having read that raving hate filled rant I've come to the conclusion Vincent Tailors is no better than a common skinhead. Deededee.

I' neither support nor share skinhead ideology. I know who the chechens are and what theyre up to while you have No any last damned ####ing clue.
You seem to understand Russian, go to amina.com/kamina and read. If "Я считаю, что русские - хорошие ребята, когда они лежат в свежевырытых могилах" and "жду не дождусь, когда эта мразь вымрет, и я поплюю на их могилу" calls for mass killings of Russians and acts of expressing great happiness and sarcasm over any bad news coming from Russia like bad tendencies in demography or anything of that sort, cutting Russians' heads off (the Stavropol incident) and behaving in a barbaric and totally uncivilized way is good enough for you, then you're just like the others - another communist ##### who supports anyone who wishes death to Russia regardless of asmsmm/
And you blame me for being a skinhead (which seems to be equal to being a patriot to you). Pitiful, just pitiful.

Не в вижу я в этой прожжённой ненависти патриотизма, не вижу. Фальшивый он. Русских бьют бла-бла-бла. Русские потери не вспоминают бла-бла и вообще их страну заняли. Всех убить хотят, раздавить и закопать. Да тех же американцев иракцы завалить хотят не меньше, чем чеченцы нас. Ну да, есть у них такие призывы к уничтожению и что? Значит нужно все замочить и перестрелять? Ну если только совсем всех и под корень по такой логике... Ибо заниматься этим равносильно подливанию бензина в огонь. Чем больше льёшь, тем больше разгорается. Если это методы патриота, то уж лучше этим самым патриотом не быть.
И чем энто не скинхед методы? Те же яйца, только в профиль... а может и вообще те же.

Самая дурацкая ошибка, которую делают т.н. "патриоты" - это образ мышления вроде "Они нас ненавидят - мы их тоже будем в ответ ненавидеть". Используя риторику и методы своих "политических оппонентов" эти люди пытаются противопоставить себя им, не понимая, что такими заявлениями они не противопоставляют, а уподобляют себя им, ставя себя на один уровень с теми, кого они хотят "замочить в сортире".
Да, между двумя народами лежит пропасть культурных, исторических и религиозных противоречий, некоторые из которых, кажется, несовместимы, но это не даёт повода уподобляться людям, стоящим на более низкой стадии развития и использовать их методы. Кто больший дурак - сам дурак или тот, кто с ним спорит?
В краткосрочной перспективе силовые методы помогут, но, к счастью, весь народ уничтожить невозможно, и сила направленная против чеченцев будет возвращаться сторицей против тех, кто эту силу направляет. Гораздо разумнее не подогревать межнациональную рознь, а искать точки соприкосновения, давать чеченским детям образование (в процессе чего, в их головы можно вкладывать необходимые идеи и принципы), фильтровать и изолировать отморозков, создавать рабочие места и позволить людям жить нормальной жизнью (иметь дом, работу, достаток) - чтобы было что терять. Самый опасный противник - это тот, кто загнан в угол и доведён до отчаяния. Накормите тигра до сыта и он не будет на вас нападать. Да, разумеется, эта язва будет ещё долго нарывать, но политика "око за око" ни к чему не приведёт. Есть же наглядный пример - арабо-израильский конфликт, который будет продолжаться до тех пор, пока Израиль не изменит свою политику.
Я - тоже патриот, и хочу для своей страны мира и процветания. Люди, которые оправдывают насилие патриотами не являются, потому что насилием к миру и процветанию прийти невозможно.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Люди, которые оправдывают насилие патриотами не являются, потому что насилием к миру и процветанию прийти невозможно.

Еще как возможно! Достаточно подумать, откуда у России такая огромная территория.

Originally Posted by mishau_

Originally Posted by Ramil

Люди, которые оправдывают насилие патриотами не являются, потому что насилием к миру и процветанию прийти невозможно.

Еще как возможно! Достаточно подумать, откуда у России такая огромная территория.

А где в России мир и процветание? И сколько насилия России пришлось вытерпеть в ответ?