What do you think about it?Quote:
A law banning the wearing of a full Islamic veil in public in France has been adopted by the lower house of parliament.
Do you support it?
Are you against it?
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What do you think about it?Quote:
A law banning the wearing of a full Islamic veil in public in France has been adopted by the lower house of parliament.
Do you support it?
Are you against it?
The French Parliament has to respect the relgious values of the French Muslims. Isn't the identity and photographs gathered through census enough. They have their own houses listed in the immigration database and citizenship roster. Muslims should be alowed to wear the veil. There are some dirty-minded men who stare at their faces and bodies as if they are 'undressing them'. Muslim women are supposed to live holy lives, devote themselves to their husband. Only their respective husbands can oggle or stare at their bodies and faces.If I am not mistaken, the banning of the veil was the official party line of a communist party of a communist muslim country which was the past Afghanistan Soviet satellite under Najibullah and instigated by communists and their spy handlers in Communist countries on the locals to foment discord. Parliamentarians of France, don't let the socialists and communists foment intrigue and animosity on France. Repeal the law!! Right now!! Communist agents of influence, don't aggravate the plight of the jobless Muslim women. Lift the ban on wearing veil!! (I am a Christian but I respect the religion of other people) Allah indeed is Great!! More power to King Abdullah both of Jordan and Saudi Arabia!1 Long live United Emirates and Dubai!! Down with damned Arab terrorists who were prophesized in the Bible together with the communist terrorists of Philippines to be 'seeking death' !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
Maybe you should calm down with your anti-communist paranoia. Only 20 left-wing representatives did vote for this text.Quote:
Le texte a été approuvé par toute la droite (UMP et Nouveau Centre) et 20 députés de gauche, dont Manuel Valls (PS) et André Gerin (PCF), initiateur du débat sur l'interdiction du voile intégral il y a un an, qui a présidé la mission d'information parlementaire sur le sujet.
The 20 leftists are symbolical representation of what the Left, socialists and communists can be prone of doing. Look, the communists practice secular humanism. Religion is banned in communist countries. They also banned the veil in Soviet Afghanistan and Yemen under the pretext of security measures. The Left with its secular humanism and anti-religious fervour was and can be capable of hurting the Muslims. The only reason why the remaining socialists in the French Parliament did not vote for it is because they want 'to wins some hearts and minds'. Given Stalin's penchant for lashing out at Musllim religion the Chechens among them, only means that the whole STalinist movement of the Left in French parliament is capable of doing it. But for the meantime, they are stalling them. You will see once France becomes a communist or sociallist state. (My lip service to Securitae only means that they direct Bloc Quebecois and Parti Quebecois to stop dividing federal Canada and submit themselves to Canadian constitution. French civil law states that 'you should give everyone his due'. I deserve compensation for exposing myself in this forum to defend the French government and be targets of conspiring posters and communists. Pay me now Securitae.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zubr
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Zubr
All I know Lampada and Zubyr is that if you say that to Stalin or any communist master, they would right away throw you to the dungeons of Lubyanka and torture you. God knows the numbers of our hair. Where are you now Crocodile to refute their arguments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Alright. So I saw you guys exchanging intimate words, and I got the impression that maybe my opinion as a Muslim would be appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
On the one hand, you got the fact that Burqa is by no means mandatory for a Muslim woman. I have never met a woman with Burqa in all my life. At least in Tehran, nobody wears it. Actually, only a very small percentage of Iranian women wear it, while the absolute majority of them are Muslim [Not that the Iranian Chador is any different. Technically, they are the same thing. But almost all Iranian women dress rather freely, and only the most fanatic people veil their faces]. Conclusion: Burqa is more of an Arabic thing, rather than Islamic.
One the other hand, I don't like that kind of laws. What people wear is none of a government's business, except in war time. Making people not wear what you don't like is as stupid as making them wear only what you like.
You still don't know why I wrote that lip service to very very conservative and fanatical Muslims, don't you, Misha tal. You well know that the Taliban and Usama bin Laden was the one responsible for the wearing of the veil in Muslim countries. I paid lip service to Usama and the Taliban because I am not 'seeking death' as prophesized by our Bible which refers to suicide bombers here in Canada. There were already two attempts on my life by a suicide bomber. A close relative of mine was beheaded by Abu Sayaff while his head was paraded in the town plaza. Aim your invectives at the Taliban and Usama. Aim them at the Arab terrorists. Not at me. I just want me and my family to be safe from those suicidal Muslims 'seeWking death' while dragWging decent and civilized people to death. What is so 'intimate' about the wording. Do you know English or you are another provocation in this forum? Or you are also another conspiring poster aiming her invectives at me to bring me trouble. Are you also a co-principal, accomplice or accesssory to Usama or the Talilban's crimes. Why not aim your invectives at them. They insist on the wearing of the veil. Are you just one of these conspiring posters and communists aiming all your invectives at me. This is not paranoia, my dear. I hold a prominent position here in Canada. One reason why there were two attempts on my life. (Do you still believe that 9/11 was done by the CIA? That is the most preposterous black ops and lies by the LEft and the Communist Party of USA!! Why not ask the terroriists like Usama bin Laden and the Taliban if they still intend to kill and maim? Surely they will answer 'Yes, we (they)STILL do (with enthusiasm and gusto)!" . Now with that answer would you still believe that the CIA is behind 9/11? Crazy Lefties in USa and Canada! Have you ever read the Chairman of the Communist Party of USA and Canada condemning the crimes of Usama bin Laden? Have you ever heard Chairman Sam Webb condemning 'another suicide attack where victims numbered to the hundreds? Have you ever read or heard Chairman Miguel Figueroa condemning any or at least on suicide attack on harmless civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan? Have you ever heard Chairman Figueroa of the Communist Party of Canada condemning that attempted bombing of Parliament or the attempted bombing of a building in Toronto or the attempted chopping of the head of Prime Minister Harper? Have you ever heard or read Chairmans Sam Webb and Miguel Figueroa condemning terrorism/ No because they themselves like all those horrible crimes to happen and they are too seeking death!! (If I were Putin or the Ministry of State Security I wouldn't grant emigration release papers (not immmigration to Russia but emigration to USA, British or Canada) to Chechens. I am the only who knows why. If he wants to know then pay me. Give me a girlfriend.)
I'm not sure I understand what you want me to refute. In general, I disrespect a parliament which has no more important business than making fashion decisions for its nation. Regardless of what way each party had voted. At the best, perhaps, the local authorities (like district school board) could mandate some fashion policies for the students and the teachers. And those students or teachers who disagree with the policy could, perhaps, appeal to the upper courts in an attempt to overturn the board's decision. I don't think a personal preference of wearing burqa is very much different than wearing black leather and piercing.Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
:shock: Too many words!Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
I think it would be much better if you spend more of your time on MasterRussian in Grammar section and less in Politics, please.
Thank you Sir Lampada! I wished or have wished to stay in Grammar until arguments needed to be refuted. What am I? A punching bag!
Nobody thinks that you are a punching bag and we are not career politicians here.Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
I don't think France should have banned it. On the other hand: If these burqa women are such fundamentalist moslems, then why precisely must they live in Europe? If these women had a bit of perspective on things the problem wouldn't have occurred in the first place.
As for hijab, I see lots of women wearing hijab all the time. I have no problem with it although it takes a while getting used to.
I have heard the point that Misha Tal raises, that a lot of things in "Islam" are in fact cultural phenomenons from the Middle East, which are not related to Islam. Makes complete sense. A lot of the culture and habits of Europe certainly has nothing to do with Christianity.
A very good friend of mine is a moslem. Based on how she lives her life and what she told me about Islam, I have a lot of respect for it. My friend swears that Islam in itself is not anti-women in any way - she is quite a feminist herself. But her view is that Western society can be just as negative for some women as some of the things that happen in the Middle East. I think that's an interesting perspective.
Girls like this would look better in a burka!!!! :mosking:
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/63...0.340x448.jpeg
This dress is surely just as legit per Islam as a burqa and it looks pretty good! But really hot to wear in warmer climes.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lGPiGRlPUa...hijab-girl.jpg
Жаль, что тут нет французов. Я читал, что 70% из них поддерживают решение своего парламента.
Я и есть француз. Но я вовсе не считаю это дело важным. По-моему, об этом так много пишут и говорят с одной целью отвлекать внимание народа, который, пока увлекается «проблемой», касающейся менее четырёхсот женщин, не обращает внимание на что более важное.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim Mo
Я не за этот закон. Он не нужний, проку в нём нет. Сержусь, что о такой мелочи так у нас заботятся. Настоящая проблема, когда мусульманин в больнице бьёт акушера за то что смотреть на чужую жену - преступление, или когда на окраине зовут девушку-француженку «бл***» потому, что не носит чадру, значит, нечистая, а нечистые девушки - это одно и то же, что мясо (эти слова я не выдумал - я действительно слышал, как так говорили). Вот об этом и надо заботиться, но это никак не относится к бурке.
Кстати, надо заметить, что в принципе, речь не идёт о бурке. Закон такой: нельзя носить одежду, покрывающую лицо. О самой бурке - ни слова.
Hanna, you know these women live in Europe because they were born here. Most of them women are French indeed.
Но это правда, что большинство населения поддерживает этот закон?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zubr
А это всё действия не одной цепи? Причём речь не о мусульманах, как я думаю, а вообще о тех, кто пытается навязывать обществу чуждые обычаи и взгляды.Quote:
Настоящая проблема, когда мусульманин в больнице бьёт акушера за то что смотреть на чужую жену - преступление, или когда на окраине зовут девушку-француженку «бл***» потому, что не носит чадру, значит, нечистая, а нечистые девушки - это одно и то же, что мясо (эти слова я не выдумал - я действительно слышал, как так говорили). Вот об этом и надо заботиться, но это никак не относится к бурке.
Значит, этот закон не имеет никакой антирелигиозной направленности. Я его и не рассматривал никогда с этой точки зрения.Quote:
Кстати, надо заметить, что в принципе, речь не идёт о бурке. Закон такой: нельзя носить одежду, покрывающую лицо. О самой бурке - ни слова.
Сам я за свободу религий. Закон этот поддерживаю и не считаю его недемократичным или нарушающим чьи-то права. Скорее - защищающим права.
Но что он довольно-таки бессмысленный - с этим можно согласиться.
PS
"Сержусь" выглядит плохо в таком контексте. Лучше сказать "я возмущён, что..."
Нужный.
Hanna, your arguments deserve praise. The French Parliament passed this law on the basis of national security. You'll never know what an Arab terrrorist with burqa is capable of doing. Well anyway, you and Misha Tal have proven your point.
There was in Russia some uproar about a ban on photography in a pasport in a hijab. Seems it permitted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deker
Did you see those suicide bombers that blew up Moscow subway station, deker? They all have hijabs! Putin blew his top at the death toll. Two hundred or more dead! Innocent civilians. I might be a member of Canadian intelligence community but I am not a gruesome ill wisher.I do not wish that gruesome ill wishes of Usama bin Laden be granted by his father Satan. I wish Russia well. We are willing to trade intelligence with SVR and FSB with respect to threats and terrorism!
Again those are about two hundred innocent victims of terrorist bombing. Imagine if your child was or parents were one of them. "Beasts"-Putin.
What concerns the respect for customs and traditions - in European culture, open face is a sign of friendly intentions as well as raised hand while covered face was always a sign of enemy. So, if them, in Arab countries wish us to respect their customs they too must respect the European customs and traditions.
There is a biblical verse that applies to Usama bin Laden, the Taliban and communist terrorists like Joma Sison when it comes to that , sir Ramil. They "want to eat the cake and HAVE IT too". It does not apply to peaceful Muslims, non-violent Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians Jews and other law-abiding religions. The verse does not apply to King Abdullah nor to Kuwaitis, Dubais, or BorneonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I absolutely agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
There's no such person as Usama bin Laden. Well, maybe there is, but its demonic image is simply an attempt to personify the threat of terrorism. They really should have 'invented' him years earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
Usama bin Laden and the Chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines Joma Sison had been living the dream, confident of their status as the most "righteous" (self-righteous) person in the world, knowledgeable of world events, the Koran until a 'thud' hit them right in the groin, the coming of Jesus Christ and the enlightenment of the rightous among the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists: the world is divided between two camps, the terrorists and communists on one hand or the devils and the democrats, non-communists center-Right, right of the center on the other. "Your bitterest enemy is your 'commie terrorist or terrorist' household member'-God in the Bible. I was a communist like Putin until both of us repented. Obama is an unrepentant Cuban agent of influence. Economic sabotage is his forte. He is now the direct opposite of Putin who turned out to be a social democrat or a bourgoisie democrat while Obama turned into an anti-corporate activiists subversive Leftist radical. You'll never know what is in the minds of those left-liberals in the US Congress. They are all capable of turning America into a communist or socialist state.There is salvation in Allah, Jesus Christ and all other religions which preach goodness and righteousness. "YOu can know one by his fruits (deeds) and by the words coming out of his mouth", the Hindus, Sikhs, Jewss, Buddhists, Musllims, included.
I absolutely disagree! :mosking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim Mo
When buying a vacation ticket to the Arab Emirates would you also purchase a burqa for your wife and make her wear it in public to respect the Middle East customs and traditions? :tease:
Но там нам разве позволено будет разгуливать в шортах и мини-юбках?? Если да - то я против всяких запретов и тут.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Мы не носим там то, что не соответствует их обычаям.
Они пусть не носят тут то, что не соответствует нашим.
Что не так?
Очень трудно быть против всяких запретов. И русской деревне не особенно спокойно пройдёшься в мини.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim Mo
Как обычно в таких случаях, всё дело в мере.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim Mo
Syria has actually just banned the niqab from its universities, which was somewhat of a surprise to me.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100719/ap_ ... amic_veils
Вот, верно. Потому что следует уважать местные традиции.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
А как тут измерить? Уважение к местным обычаям - вот и вся мера.Quote:
Как обычно в таких случаях, всё дело в мере.
Но это уважение должно быть взаимным. Как же иначе?
Quite right Krupskaya! :mosking: You can be as crazy religious as you want, as long as you are friends with the USA - then you are automatically good, regardless... (Go ahead and ban women from driving, stone them or chop of peoples' hands... )Quote:
Originally Posted by крупскяа
This is why Saudi Arabia are "good" fundamentalist moslems and Iranians are on the "Axis of Evil"... Got that???
(Double standards, what's that?) :wacko:
PS - there is no nationality called "Borneons". You make me worried about the Canadian security force if you are indeed serving there.
PS2 - this was a sarcastic post....
Britain considered this, since it was a big issue in France, and apparently the conclusion is:
1) It is un-British to tell people what to wear (according to the current government).
2) Some women feel more liberated (apparently) while wearing a burka, therefore it would be oppressive to ban them from wearing it.
However, according to the paper I just read on the train 68% of Brits support a ban regardless.
There is a huge disconnect between regular peoples' view on topics relating to immigration, and the view of politicians
The problem in Europe is that everyone is really fed up with immigrants/refugees who don't make an effort to adapt in Europe, but continue living as they were back in Africa or the Middle East.
Either way, they are welcomed into society here, and receive a lot of help. People think that they might make more effort to integrate instead of living outside of normal society as large numbers do. For some reason the recent mass immigration has not worked out very well anywhere in Europe and there are huge groups living virtually "outside" of society - regular people dislike this phenomenon.
Hanna, спасибо, очень интересно.
Eсли европейские женщины готовы одевать в законодательном порядке ту же самую бурку в арабских странах, тогда имеет смысл запрещать её в Европе. А на сегодня статус-кво другой: европейские женщины НЕ одевают бурку, а арабские - надевают. Везде. Вот тебе и взаимное уважение традиций. В чём смысл напрягать ситуацию?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim Mo
I think that does not mean the niqab is forbidden in public. That is a big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow
Сорри, совершенно не понимаю твоей логики. При чём тут паранджа (по-русски это слово привычней) для европеек? Они же и так лишены возможности одеваться, как для них привычно, когда они находятся в арабских странах, не так ли? И здесь никто не заставляет арабок и восточных женщин носить мини-юбки и брюки и т.д.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
А в чём смысл напрягать ситуацию - лучше спросить французский парламент и 70% французов и британцев, которые за такие меры. Я в Москве ни разу не видел женщин в одежде, полностью скрывающей тело и оставляющей только прорезь для глаз. Увидел бы - инстинктивно мог бы перейти на другую сторону улицы, наверное. Потому что для меня такой стиль одежды означал бы недоброжелательность и враждебность. У нас такой стиль вне всяких наших традиций.
Когда уже алладины запретят? =)
http://s55.radikal.ru/i150/0909/fb/2d94ee91c150.jpg
Кошмар! Первый раз вижу такое чудо. Подумала сначала, что рубашка на ноги натянута.Quote:
Originally Posted by BappaBa
У нас теперь мода на коротенькие шортики:
http://slimages.macys.com/is/image/M...39137_fpx.tif?
А у нас сейчас это писк. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Много коротких юбочек и джинсов-дудочек.
[img]http://img.thefind.com/images/WAD72n6hexrDNAYPLQ6GxIKCxKLUHIaMkpICK339zNzE9NTkxO SMVL3E4vxiveT8XP3MvDL9Sn1DEyN9Q2NTU31LUxMLU2P9lNS8 zFyIesMcvayCdAYGAA**?m=1&g=1[/img]
Отрывок передачи на "Эхе Москвы", где писатель В. Ерофеев и его жена рассказывают о поездке в Иран:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/svoi-glaza/692642-echo/Quote:
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Мы ждали, что нас в тюрьму посадят сразу, в аэропорту. Поэтому просил, чтобы нас встречали – встречали и с одной стороны, и посольским, кстати, тоже спасибо – встретили. Катя как из журнала «Плейбой» - она забыла все эти платки в багаже, и поэтому она выходит с золотистыми своими волосами – вот фильм об этом надо снимать – она выходит в зал прилета. И все иранцы смотрят на эту копну – это такой вызов. Как если бы я вышел с атомной бомбой в качестве ребенка.
С.ШЕВАРДНАДЗЕ: Катя, вам не страшно было?
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Она забыла. Она страшно волновалась, и вот мы стоим уже чтобы получить печать у пограничницы, закутанной в черное, и ко мне подходит человек лет 45, такой по-восточному внимательный, расположенный - как в фильме, - непонятно какого цвета и характера лицо – такой неприметный человек возникает, улыбается мне, ничего не говорит, и показывает на нее. И я вижу в его глазах все – вижу, что если я ему скажу: не будет этого, - нас уволокут обратно в самолет. То есть, жесткость абсолютная, и в то же время абсолютная медовость восточная - и так, и так. Я говорю – «ин ве ленгвич» - строго. Тогда он подходит к пограничнице и ей сообщает – эту пропустите.
О.БЫЧКОВА: Муж сказал.
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Да, муж сказал. И мы входим, и там уже просто скандал, потому что она такая. А там вообще никакая.
Е.ЕРОФЕЕВА: И даже в хвостик не собрали?
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Ничего. Вот явилась такая в Иране.
О.БЫЧКОВА: Объясняю радиослушателям - Катя сидит в образе такой Лорелеи, такие длинные волосы белые, очень красивые.
С.ШЕВАРДНАДЗЕ: Кучерявые. Голубые глаза.
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Очень красивая девушка с очень красивыми белыми, пшеничными волосами. Я думаю, что в Иране таких девушек не очень много – что-то мне подсказывает.
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Мы не встретили ни одной.
С.ШЕВАРДНАДЗЕ: Даже если они есть, они прикрыты платком.
О.БЫЧКОВА: И их увидеть достаточно сложно. То есть, вы там произвели фурор.
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Бомба сразу взорвалась. Но мы ее аккуратненько загасили.
С.ШЕВАРДНАДЗЕ: Но это же поразительно, что они так культурно к людям обращаются?
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: У офицера-кэгэбэшника было ровно столько строгости, что он дал мне понять, что если не наденет - все, не пустят. Но одновременно он был настолько шармером таким – любезным. Я думаю, что, наверное, он был в роли подполковника, а мы знаем, что подполковники иногда далеко идут наверх, так что он, наверное, тоже пройдет.
О.БЫЧКОВА: Способный человек.
В.ЕРОФЕЕВ: Да, способный.
О.БЫЧКОВА: А дальше вы ходили уже все время в платке, как положено?
Е.ЕРОФЕЕВА: Да.