Thread: 9/11

With respect to conspiracy theories, I always apply Occam's Razor:

"other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."

IE, did the US government orchestrate a complex disaster, which would involve the silence/compliance of thousands of people
OR, did angry people from countries which we have had wars with, avenge their dead by attacking the World Trade Center.

I stand by the basic premise. Granted, many questions exist, serious questions, such as why Bin Laden's family was allowed out of the US when no one else was allowed to fly. But I do not necessarily believe that contradicts the main premise.

As Crocodile so adroitly pointed out (только если бы я умела так свободно писать по-русски!), evidence is needed for these conspiracy theories, before any of them can be taken seriously.

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Deborski

With respect to conspiracy theories, I always apply Occam's Razor:

"other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."

IE, did the US government orchestrate a complex disaster, which would involve the silence/compliance of thousands of people
OR, did angry people from countries which we have had wars with, avenge their dead by attacking the World Trade Center.

I stand by the basic premise. Granted, many questions exist, serious questions, such as why Bin Laden's family was allowed out of the US when no one else was allowed to fly. But I do not necessarily believe that contradicts the main premise.

As Crocodile so adroitly pointed out (только если бы я умела так свободно писать по-русски!), evidence is needed for these conspiracy theories, before any of them can be taken seriously.

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I always apply Occam's razor too. But the evidence is needed for the official version too! And all the evidence we have says it was done by the American government. There is no need to make all the people silent because the American authorities have information power and can always call such people "conspirologists". Americans simply believe that their government can't be so cruel and they are ready to believe everything but that version, no matter how many arguments are given in its support.

Originally Posted by Marcus

But the evidence is needed for the official version too!

I agree, there are several major flaws in the 'official version'.

Originally Posted by Marcus

And all the evidence we have says it was done by the American government.

I disagree, there's no such evidence. The farthest you could go is to claim the US government knew something was to happen, but they didn't take sufficient precautions to deal with that. Took it lightly, so to speak. Any government is just an always-quarreling group of selfish smug bureaucrats and nothing more. How do you imagine the US government design it? George W. Bush calls John Ashcroft to his ranch, they have some beer and a nice BBQ steak and then Bush calls Ashcroft aside and says something like: "Hey, John, we are unpopular this season, let's crash some airplanes onto some buildings in NYC and whatever's left we'll dump on the Pentagon, how do you like that idea, dude?"

Seriously speaking, the places like the FBI, the CIA, etc. are constantly conveying internal tests of their employees. The tests are of the various nature, among them are the loyalty tests of various kinds. Among them, the higher management is asking the lower management to pass some classified info to their subordinates and see if the subordinates are loyal and would report the incidents to the higher management. If you call you bosom friend in the FBI and ask them to trait their organization, they will agree with you 100% and the very next thing they would report on you to their management and one level up simply because they would think it's just another test. So, no. The US government has nothing to do with the design and the performance of the 9/11. Until you present a proof, which would really prove and not just suspect, you have no right going on blaming the US government.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I agree, there are several major flaws in the 'official version'.

I disagree, there's no such evidence. .

Really? How so? Based on what?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you both (yourself and Marcus) can't be right.

911 Proof

9-11 Research: The Evidence

Read through tons of links and investigate all claims and for me, it keeps coming back as enough evidence. I'm not sure how you conclude there isn't. You still haven't said.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Really? How so? Based on what?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you both (yourself and Marcus) can't be right.

911 Proof

9-11 Research: The Evidence

Read through tons of links and investigate all claims and for me, it keeps coming back as enough evidence. I'm not sure how you conclude there isn't. You still haven't said.

Here's the thing. Don't get me wrong - it's not like I blindly believe everything Bush administration said. (Iraq's WMDs are the best in that respect.) I suggest putting those 'proofs and sufficient evidence' to a real test. I dare you to take the US government to court with those and try to convince the judge that you case at least has a merit. That is going to be a historical "14Russian vs the US Government" case. If you do that, I'll go over those links to refresh my mind (since I was interested in that topic long ago and I think I found an answer for myself). Sounds fair?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Here's the thing. Don't get me wrong - it's not like I blindly believe everything Bush administration said. (Iraq's WMDs are the best in that respect.) I suggest putting those 'proofs and sufficient evidence' to a real test. I dare you to take the US government to court with those and try to convince the judge that you case at least has a merit. That is going to be a historical "14Russian vs the US Government" case. If you do that, I'll go over those links to refresh my mind (since I was interested in that topic long ago and I think I found an answer for myself). Sounds fair?

Вы считаете, что провокации невозможны? Да ими полна история. Но для того чтобы предоставить неопровержимые доказательства нужен доступ к архивам, чего американское правительство предоставлять не будет.
Как можно не верить в то, что это могло сделать американское правительство, но верить в то, что это могли сделать несколько террористов, не связанных ни с какой спецслужбой мира?

Originally Posted by Marcus

Вы считаете, что провокации невозможны? Да ими полна история.

Provocations are possible, but in order to claim that you need a proof. By the way, I would agree the 9/11 was a provocation. It provoked the US to start their 'clone wars'. (Something that made the US public debt to skyrocket since 2001!) However, what makes you think the only organization capable of provocation is the US Government?

Originally Posted by Marcus

Но для того чтобы предоставить неопровержимые доказательства нужен доступ к архивам, чего американское правительство предоставлять не будет.

What does it have to do with the archives? The buildings crashed just before our eyes! Besides, do you think people who really designed that would carefully keep the records?

Originally Posted by Marcus

Как можно не верить в то, что это могло сделать американское правительство, но верить в то, что это могли сделать несколько террористов, не связанных ни с какой спецслужбой мира, не очень логично.

I think I already said that a couple of times... I do not believe 9/11 was designed by Bin Laden, so please don't accuse me of something I had never said.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Вы считаете, что провокации невозможны? Да ими полна история. Но для того чтобы предоставить неопровержимые доказательства нужен доступ к архивам, чего американское правительство предоставлять не будет.
Как можно не верить в то, что это могло сделать американское правительство, но верить в то, что это могли сделать несколько террористов, не связанных ни с какой спецслужбой мира?

LOL! Excellent point, Marcus!

Croc, they (i.e. U.S. Government) would be in jail. I wouldn't have to do much initially until they were put behind bars. The U.S. Government has destroyed (and confiscated) evidence. You're obviously not a lawyer.

Again, you didn't read over the most recent links.