Thread: 9/11

Originally Posted by Marcus

Теория заговора - это то, что какие-то Бен Ладен и Аль-Каида сумели атаковать Пентагон. А то, что это провокация, следует изо всего.

Я прочитал тему без просмотра видео и до сих пор не могу понять, кто точно в конечном итоге спланировал и осуществил атаку Пентагона. Можно объяснить "для чайников"?

Originally Posted by diogen_

Я прочитал тему без просмотра видео и до сих пор не могу понять, кто точно в конечном итоге спланировал и осуществил атаку Пентагона. Можно объяснить "для чайников"?

Американское руководство, точнее нельзя.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Американское руководство, точнее нельзя.

Wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Wishful thinking.

Что вы можете сказать против того, на что даются ссылки в первом посте?

Originally Posted by Marcus

Что вы можете сказать против того, на что даются ссылки в первом посте?

Ссылки не открывала, но живу в этой стране более 30 лет и знаю её достаточно для того, чтобы понимать, что здесь возможно, а что нет.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ссылки не открывала, но живу в этой стране более 30 лет и знаю её достаточно для того, чтобы понимать, что здесь возможно, а что нет.

Among the things that are возможно in America (and that were "even more возможно") prior to 9/11:

1. Domestic travel inside the US (including air travel) is quite easy and not very restricted
2. Living as a foreigner in the US (without being harassed by the police) is fairly easy -- evening living here with an expired visa was relatively easy, because of "separation of powers" between state-level police and the federal INS
3. Smuggling various items onto domestic flights -- again, fairly easy, because authorities were mainly worried about bombs and guns, and security for domestic flights was less strict than for international ones (prior to 9/11, I flew from NYC to Puerto Rico with a Swiss Army knife in my carry-on luggage... and some cocaine in my contact-lens case!)
4. Getting a visa to live temporarily in the US is relatively easy, even if you're a citizen of a nation that is on a "terrorist watch" list

For these reasons and others, I find it difficult to take seriously any claims that "a bunch of Arabs couldn't possibly have outwitted the police and government agencies of the world's most powerful country."

In fact, while the attack was in many ways "brilliantly planned," none of the details in the plan were that complicated, and no part of the plan required information that is only obtainable with a top-secret clearance. (For example, the weaknesses of airport security screening procedures were deducable by careful observation.)

Originally Posted by Marcus

Американское руководство, точнее нельзя.

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument that it was impossible for a small group of highly dedicated and fanatical Arabs to plan and successfully execute these attacks. But granting that...

На какой основе вы исключаете из подозрения российское руководство? Или китайское? Или европейский союз?

("On what basis are you excluding from suspicion the Russian government, or the Chinese, or the European Union?" -- please correct my Russian phrasing!)

Surely these other "suspects" have the sophistication to have planned the attacks -- even if one supposes that Arabs are too stupid and backwards to have come up with the oh-so-complicated strategy of smuggling small knives in their carry-on baggage, slitting the throats of a few stewardesses, and threatening to kill more in order to make the pilots open the cockpit door.

And surely there are theoretical motives for Russia, or China, or the EU to have planned the attacks (possibly to weaken the US's status as "the world's lone superpower", for example).

But while people like Marcus and 14Russian and other "9/11 Skeptics" present themselves as "open-minded" and accuse others of being dull, close-minded sheeple because they accept the official theory that "pissed-off Muslims did it", there is a rather strange limit to the self-proclaimed "open-mindedness" of 9/11 Skeptics!

Their imaginations will stretch exactly far enough to blame the U.S. government (or, possibly, the Israelis too), but not far enough to consider "ex-KGB agents under secret orders from Putin" among the potential suspects.

Why exactly is that?

P.S. To answer my own rhetorical question, I think that Lampada's "wishful thinking" remark is possibly correct: some people want it to be true that the Americans Are Guilty. They don't point fingers at China (for example) because "the Chinese did it" isn't emotionally satisfying to them.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument that it was impossible for a small group of highly dedicated and fanatical Arabs to plan and successfully execute these attacks. But granting that...

На какой основе вы исключаете из подозрения российское руководство? Или китайское? Или европейский союз?

("On what basis are you excluding from suspicion the Russian government, or the Chinese, or the European Union?" -- please correct my Russian phrasing!)

Surely these other "suspects" have the sophistication to have planned the attacks -- even if one supposes that Arabs are too stupid and backwards to have come up with the oh-so-complicated strategy of smuggling small knives in their carry-on baggage, slitting the throats of a few stewardesses, and threatening to kill more in order to make the pilots open the cockpit door.

And surely there are theoretical motives for Russia, or China, or the EU to have planned the attacks (possibly to weaken the US's status as "the world's lone superpower", for example).

But while people like Marcus and 14Russian and other "9/11 Skeptics" present themselves as "open-minded" and accuse others of being dull, close-minded sheeple because they accept the official theory that "pissed-off Muslims did it", there is a rather strange limit to the self-proclaimed "open-mindedness" of 9/11 Skeptics!

Their imaginations will stretch exactly far enough to blame the U.S. government (or, possibly, the Israelis too), but not far enough to consider "ex-KGB agents under secret orders from Putin" among the potential suspects.

Why exactly is that?

P.S. To answer my own rhetorical question, I think that Lampada's "wishful thinking" remark is possibly correct: some people want it to be true that the Americans Are Guilty. They don't point fingers at China (for example) because "the Chinese did it" isn't emotionally satisfying to them.

Very well stated, Throbert...

And Americans like cheap Chinese manufactured goods. That's why they don't want to blame the Chinese. No one even calls the Chinese "communists," although I know a lot of Americans who still call the Russians "commies." The Chinese commit horrendous human rights violations (suicide nets just to name one!) and for some reason the media is mostly silent about it, whereas the media never missed a chance to point out all the inhumanities of the co-called "evil empire" (Russia).

Americans like Wal*Mart and the convenience of cheap stuff. They don't really care where it comes from, or how badly people suffered to produce those goods. They don't think about the impact all of this is having on the US economy either! But I digress.

I think Americans are also (deep down) really scared of China. They prefer to think of the Russians as the "bad guys" because Russians were kind of endearing to us as "enemies" - maybe we sensed that they were really just a lot like us. I think those who still call Russia the "number one geopolitical foe" are just nostalgic, and hankering for the comfortable Cold War days, before the "War on Terror" and before the horror of 9/11.

As for all the conspiracy theories out there, I have studied enough of them to see that for the most part they just ask more questions than they really answer. Granted, I am not opposed to asking questions. I just hope we ask the right ones, and do not let our judgement get cloudy by too much "Ancient Aliens" thinking.

Originally Posted by Deborski

As for all the conspiracy theories out there, I have studied enough of them to see that for the most part they just ask more questions than they really answer. Granted, I am not opposed to asking questions. I just hope we ask the right ones, and do not let our judgement get cloudy by too much "Ancient Aliens" thinking.

I don't know about most of them. But the correct version that everything was done by American authorities explains everything.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument that it was impossible for a small group of highly dedicated and fanatical Arabs to plan and successfully execute these attacks. But granting that...

На какой основе вы исключаете из подозрения российское руководство? Или китайское? Или европейский союз?

("On what basis are you excluding from suspicion the Russian government, or the Chinese, or the European Union?" -- please correct my Russian phrasing!)

Surely these other "suspects" have the sophistication to have planned the attacks -- even if one supposes that Arabs are too stupid and backwards to have come up with the oh-so-complicated strategy of smuggling small knives in their carry-on baggage, slitting the throats of a few stewardesses, and threatening to kill more in order to make the pilots open the cockpit door.

And surely there are theoretical motives for Russia, or China, or the EU to have planned the attacks (possibly to weaken the US's status as "the world's lone superpower", for example).

But while people like Marcus and 14Russian and other "9/11 Skeptics" present themselves as "open-minded" and accuse others of being dull, close-minded sheeple because they accept the official theory that "pissed-off Muslims did it", there is a rather strange limit to the self-proclaimed "open-mindedness" of 9/11 Skeptics!

Their imaginations will stretch exactly far enough to blame the U.S. government (or, possibly, the Israelis too), but not far enough to consider "ex-KGB agents under secret orders from Putin" among the potential suspects.

Why exactly is that?

P.S. To answer my own rhetorical question, I think that Lampada's "wishful thinking" remark is possibly correct: some people want it to be true that the Americans Are Guilty. They don't point fingers at China (for example) because "the Chinese did it" isn't emotionally satisfying to them.

Do you think I have a special anti-American bias?

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

They don't point fingers at China (for example) because "the Chinese did it" isn't emotionally satisfying to them.

I agree to that

Originally Posted by Doomer

I agree to that

Well, supposedly, wreckage from the WTC was shipped to China for recycling so I guess China is in on it, too, after all.

Geez, now the truth comes out after all this time and we finally have the answers.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

На какой основе вы исключаете из подозрения российское руководство? Или китайское? Или европейский союз?

("On what basis are you excluding from suspicion the Russian government, or the Chinese, or the European Union?" -- please correct my Russian phrasing!)

Correcting.
"На каких основаниях [каком основании] вы исключаете из круга подозреваемых российское руководство?"

Originally Posted by Marcus

Do you think I have a special anti-American bias?

I suspect that, like 14Russian, you have a special bias in favor of any conceivable theory that mentions the "New World Order."

And I also know, from past threads, that you never favor a simple explanation when an incredibly elaborate conspiracy will suffice.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I suspect that, like 14Russian, you have a special bias in favor of any conceivable theory that mentions the "New World Order."

And I also know, from past threads, that you never favor a simple explanation when an incredibly elaborate conspiracy will suffice.

Um, okay?!? And I can say you have NOT even checked out even one link. Out of hundreds. So, guess what, I think you have a bias against anything that suggests 'conspiracy.' You can suspect whatever you want. You haven't researched anything.