Thread: что-то, кое-что, что-нибудь, что-либо; to C or not to C

Guys- First off, I have come to this site several times for grammar and vocab explanations, so thanks for the answers you've given me before. I am preparing for the TORFL-3, and I think I am in fact ready to pass it, but I am something like a perfectionist and want to get a good score if only for myself.
I have two questions: what is the difference between что-то, кое-что, and что-нибудь?
It seems that if you didn't know whether your friend had bought something, you would ask, "Ты купил что-нибудь?", whereas if you knew that your friend had bought something and wanted to know what, you might say, "Ты что-то купил?" Is this understanding correct?
The other ones, кое-что, and что-либо and its variants like какие-либо always confuse me. Can anyone provide some illumination with good examples?
Last, and I will leave you alone until my next question and hopefully in the meantime pass on some of your good karma, can someone explain to me when you use the preposition C? The cases where it means "with", like "with cheese" or "with my girlfriend", are obvious, but what confuses me is passive constructions with C. Sometimes it gets used, sometimes it doesn't. Again, help is much appreciated!
Thanks!
Tim

Originally Posted by tim_in_kiev

It seems that if you didn't know whether your friend had bought something, you would ask, "Ты купил что-нибудь?", whereas if you knew that your friend had bought something and wanted to know what, you might say, "Ты что-то купил?" Is this understanding correct?

The latter implies that he wasn't supposed to buy anything, but apparently did. The former, imho, is just a 'did you buy anything?' question. If I knew for sure that he bought something and wanted clarification, I would ask 'Что ты купил?'

The other ones, кое-что, and что-либо and its variants like какие-либо always confuse me. Can anyone provide some illumination with good examples?

кое-что implies a secret yet to be revealed - 'я кое-что купил' like 'I bought something (special)' or 'I bought one (or several...) thing(s)..." the the speaker knows exactly what it is but the other party doesn't.
что-либо is a formal version of что-нибудь, imho.

Last, and I will leave you alone until my next question and hopefully in the meantime pass on some of your good karma, can someone explain to me when you use the preposition C? The cases where it means "with", like "with cheese" or "with my girlfriend", are obvious, but what confuses me is passive constructions with C. Sometimes it gets used, sometimes it doesn't. Again, help is much appreciated!
Thanks!
Tim

Passive what? Can you provide some examples when it's used and when it's not, as I don't have an idea what is it about.

Thanks for the tip on кое-что. What about кое-где? It seems like means "all over the place" or "here and there", like кое-где на улице лежали хлопья бумаги. Is this correct?
About C- I meant sentences like он шёл медленными шагами, or он говорил робким голосом. Sometimes the C just seems to pop up and it seems there must some trick for determining whether it is to be used or not. Let me know if I am still not being clear.

Originally Posted by tim_in_kiev

Thanks for the tip on кое-что. What about кое-где? It seems like means "all over the place" or "here and there", like кое-где на улице лежали хлопья бумаги. Is this correct?

Yes. But not a 'a lot of them all over'.

About C- I meant sentences like он шёл медленными шагами, or он говорил робким голосом. Sometimes the C just seems to pop up and it seems there must some trick for determining whether it is to be used or not. Let me know if I am still not being clear.

Ok, and waht about ones with 'С'? Like 'он шел с опущенной головой'? If so, I don't see any regularity here, just a usage of the preposition with particular verb, to be memorized. ( In this cases, e.g. http://www.classes.ru/grammar/114.Rosen ... ed_15.html par. 4 ). ps - there may be some rule that I don't know about.

The tip on gifts works every time a similar example comes up, but I see коё-что being used in other ways. According to the test book,
1 Нам нужно встретиться и обсудить очень важный вопрос. = Нам нужно коё-что обсудить.
2 Я должна сделать ещё одну работу перед уходом домой. = Я должна коё-что сделать.
3 Я давно хочу тебе задать один вопрос, но никак не получается. = Я хочу задать тебе коё-какой вопрос.
4 Я попросила одного своего знакомого помочь нам. = Я коё-кого попросила o помощи.
5 Извини, меня ждут, я должен поговорить. = Я должен коё c кем поговорить.
6 Мне нужно купить продукты и я не знаю какие. = Мне нужно коё-что купить.
7 Я хочу задать тебе вопрос, который меня волнует. = Я хочу тебя коё очём спросить.
There is some dimension to this that I just plain am not grasping.

Hmm.. I can't explain it clearly, but I don't see any irregularity here. When the part of this passive construction is a method or a tool of the main action it does not require "c" even if in English there's "with" in similar situation. Otherwise it has "c"/"with" the same as in English.

Он шел быстрым шагом - быстрым шагом refers to the method of walking, it's essential part of it, his steps are a "tool" that moves him forward
Он шел с низко опущенной головой - his lowered head does not propel him forward, it's just an additional detail

or
Он приветствовал ее улыбкой ~ i.e. his smile was a greeting in itself
Он приветствовал ее с улыбкой - he greeted her with a smile (a smile was not his main method of greeting, it's an added detail, he said something, but he smiled at the same time).

Is there some reason you are writing кое as коё?

I was writing it the way it sounded- thanks for the tip.

Кстати, в речи часто используют "что-то" вместо "кое-что".
Говорят: "у меня что-то есть для тебя". (= у меня кое-что есть для тебя")
Или: "я что-то тебе приготовил". (= я кое-что тебе приготовил")


Ждём Lampada со ссылкой на песню "Незримый бой". Там есть строки
Если кто-то кое-где у нас порой
Честно жить не хочет...

Originally Posted by Vadim Mo

...
Ждём Lampada со ссылкой на песню "Незримый бой". Там есть строки
Если кто-то кое-где у нас порой
Честно жить не хочет...

Наша служба и опасна и трудна,
И на первый взгляд, как будто не видна.
Если кто-то кое-где у нас порой
Честно жить не хочет.
Значит с ними нам вести незримый бой,
Так назначено судьбой для нас с тобой -
Служба дни и ночи.

Если где-то человек попал в беду
Мы поможем - мы всё время на посту.
Ну а если вдруг кому нибудь из нас
Тоже станет туго -
Что ж, друг друга выручали мы не раз,
И не раз согрело нас в тяжелый час
Сердце, сердце друга.

Часто слышим мы упреки от родных,
Что работаем почти без выходных,
Что разлуки нескончаемы порой,
Встречи ненадолго.
Только снова поднимает нас с зарей
И уводит за собой в незримый бой
Наше чувство долга.

I've always understood the instrumental case as, if you are saying with(accompanied by), you should use C plus the instrumental case, but if you are saying, with(by means of), you don't use C, and just use the instrumental case.

So...я пишу карандашом (I am writing with a pencil(by means of a pencil)).
And...я пью с друзьями (I am drinking with friends(accompanied by friends)).

I hope that's right.

Originally Posted by kybarry

I've always understood the instrumental case as, if you are saying with(accompanied by), you should use C plus the instrumental case, but if you are saying, with(by means of), you don't use C, and just use the instrumental case.

So...я пишу карандашом (I am writing with a pencil(by means of a pencil)).
And...я пью с друзьями (I am drinking with friends(accompanied by friends)).

I hope that's right.

Right.

Thanks everyone for the tips on when to use C and when not to use it.
I have to say- I spent three years in Russia, for around half that time I could understand more or less what people were talking about and got much better towards the end, and I don't think I ever heard anyone say кое-что, and I am someone who is really attuned to the differences in words- I immediately picked up on что-то and что-нибудь and that there must be difference, while кое-что was not even on my radar. I encountered it only occasionally, and then I think always in print.
The test I am taking, the TRKI-3, lets you pass with only a 60 percent on each subtest, so I could just forget about кое-что and pass the test, but want to understand it. In the seven examples I gave, it really feels like you should just say что-то; in other cases, I have a solid feeling that что-то is the answer and am right, so there must be some kind of difference.
Argh.
I found a very good tip on C, when to use it and when not to, and will hopefully have the time to post it later today.