Thread: "Что-нибудь" или "кое-что"?

I was listening a bit to the "Pimsleur" course and I don't really understand the difference between что-нибудь and кое-что....

For example in this sentence from Pimsleur: (Where would you like to have something to drink..)

--Где бы вы хотели что-нибудь выпить? (per Pimsleur)

--Где бы вы хотели кое-что выпить? (as I thought... )

Both words seem to translate to "something".

At first I believed that "что-нибудь" meant "anything". But not according to this sentence, or according to Google!

Is the top sentence right and the bottom one wrong?
I wonder if you can help me to explain the differences between these two in a practical way.

Don't trust Pimsleur in that question. Its phrasing and wording are awful.
"Где бы вы хотели что-нибудь выпить?" sounds unnatural from many points of view.

P.S. A good discussion on WR forum http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1137328
Another one:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=981374

I agree with Оля, Pimsleur teaches very unnatural language and we have already discussed this several times on this forum. I think it's better to use real texts (films, series in Russian) to pick up such phrases.

http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...168154#p168154

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

It's irrational to repeat words when you know you got them wrong, you feel like you're wasting your time, and you can't correct yourself (by checking transcriptions, that is). What even worse is that the student can think he says something "correctly" while it's indecipherable for native speaker (like some guy pronouncing Russian "приблизительно" as "бибизит").
<…>
Еще все ситуации в Пимслере расчитаны сугубо на туристов, а точнее, на американских туристов, которые знакомятся с местными девушками и водят их по ресторанам. Плюс магазинно-гостинично-вокзальная лексика. Выучить язык по Пимслеру даже до Intermediate уровня однозначно нельзя.

))

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Еще все ситуации в Пимслере расчитаны сугубо на туристов, а точнее, на американских туристов, которые знакомятся с местными девушками и водят их по ресторанам.

Originally Posted by Pimsleur for beginners

Повтарайте пожалуйста! Я американец. У меня много денег. Мне очень нравится женщины... -- Где бы вы хотели что-нибудь выпить?

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I think this is something of a trend in the material and it is really irritating...


EDIT: (Fixed the quote!)

Hey, it wasn't me who wrote this, it was gRomoZeka. I think she is on holiday, I haven't seen her here for a long time.

I like the following interpretation:
"Что-нибудь" - something unknown (the choice in not made yet)
"кое-что" - something certain ("you know what..." )

Speaking of indefinite pronouns, what's the difference between -либо and -нибудь? I find this much less clear...

Originally Posted by bitpicker

Speaking of indefinite pronouns, what's the difference between -либо and -нибудь? I find this much less clear...

In most cases there is no difference at all. If it is, the difference is very delicate and native speakers probably will not agree about it.

что-нибудь can mean "whatever" while что-либо can not.

An example
at least something = хоть что-нибудь (хоть что-либо is bad... IMHO...)

And -либо is a bit bookish in style.

Originally Posted by Johanna

At first I believed that "что-нибудь" meant "anything". But not according to this sentence, or according to Google!

It means "anything" in questions.

-- У тебя есть что-нибудь, что может мне помочь?
-- Я попробую что-нибудь найти.
На следующий день:
-- Я кое-что нашёл!

Thanks, it-ogo. So, is it safe to assume that I can simply avoid -либо, or would you (or anyone else) say that it is necessary in certain circumstances?

Robin

I will not discuss the "Pimsleur" phrase wording, I just want to add more clarity to what was actually asked, i.e. the difference between "что-нибудь" and "кое-что".

There is no direct correspondence between 2 English pronouns "something" vs "anything" and 3 Russian pronouns "кое-что", "что-нибудь" and "что-то".

1. -нибудь conveys an idea of something not defined yet.
Я куплю что-нибудь выпить. = I will buy something to drink. (I do not know what, I have not decided yet).
Расскажи мне что-нибудь интересное. = Tell me something interesting. (= anything you can).

2. -то conveys an idea of something which is surely defined already, but still unknown to the speaker.
Он что-то хочет спросить. = He wants to ask something. (I am sure he does, but I do not know what exactly).
У него в кармане что-то тяжёлое. = He has something heavy in his pocket. (It is obvious he has, but I do not know what).

3. кое- conveys an idea of something which is known to the SPEAKER but still unknown to the LISTENER. It involves some shade of "secret" or "surprise".
Я кое-что купил. = I have bought something. (I know what, but you don't) - probably I will tell you later. Or maybe I am not going to specify details at all...
Я хочу кое-что спросить. = I want to ask something. (You do not know at the moment).

Compare:
Он что-нибудь принесёт. = He will bring something. (I do not know what, and I am not sure if he has already decided what exactly to bring or not. It is only known that he is not going to come "empty hands").
Он что-то принесёт. = He will bring something. (I do not know what, but I am pretty sure he has already decided what to bring. Probably, he has told me he was going to make a surprise).
Он кое-что принесёт. = He will bring something. (I know what! But I am not going to tell you right now).

Certainly, there are more nuances. But I do not want to make it complicated now. There is just a general idea.

Finally, we also have -либо.
In most of cases (but not always!) что-либо = что-нибудь. However, words with -либо (as it was mentioned in one of previous posts) are bookish and not often used in informal conversation.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

Thanks, it-ogo. So, is it safe to assume that I can simply avoid -либо, or would you (or anyone else) say that it is necessary in certain circumstances?

I think it can always be avoided.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

...

+1

Thanks for that. I'll avoid -либо then.

Robin

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I like the following interpretation:
"Что-нибудь" - something unknown (the choice in not made yet)
"кое-что" - something certain ("you know what..." )

Thanks everyone, particularly Iti-Ogo and Bob Whiteman for the excellent explanations. Bob's examples were so good that I entered them into my flashcard set.

This is definitely something which will fall into place after lots of exposure to spoken and written Russian. Unless it's covered in some exercie book.

My mother tongue doesn't use "something" or "anything" in the same way as English either. I still remember doing school exercises where you had to fill in the correct word in the blank space ("anything" or "something"....)

There is one more way in Russian to say "something": "нечто".

There are also некто, некогда with corresponding meanings.

I am not sure how to comment the difference though.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

There is one more way in Russian to say "something": "нечто".
There are also некто, некогда with corresponding meanings.

Enough, enough!!! This is crazy!!

The United Nations should make an international law to FORBID any langauge from having more than two words for "something". It is not needed!

They should send inspectors to check compliance and those who refuse to comply should be added to Bush' "Axis of Evil" list....

According to my grammar book, 'нечто' is used exclusively before attributes: нечто вкусное = something tasty. 'Некто' is used only before personal names: некто Владислав = a certain Wladislav.

It is important not to confuse these with ничто and никто, 'nothing' and 'nobody'. These have stress on the second syllable, whereas the two mentioned above have stress on the first.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

According to my grammar book, 'нечто' is used exclusively before attributes: нечто вкусное = something tasty. 'Некто' is used only before personal names: некто Владислав = a certain Wladislav.

Not exclusively. Это было нечто! Некто в кожаном пальто...

OK, I'll try to put the explanation in series with Боб Уайтман's ones.

некто/нечто conveys an idea of something speaker has information about (or even was in contact with) but this information is still not enough to completely identify that object or person.

So the incompleteness of information is emphasized and often it produces a feeling of mistery. Or it's usage may mean "that is all I know about it/him".

P.S. This meaning is true only in Nominative for некто and in Nominative and Accusative for нечто. In all other cases these words mean nobody and nothing correspondingly.

... crazy indeed.

Originally Posted by Johanna

Enough, enough!!! This is crazy!!

Maybe if you will try to teach foreigners your native language you will find more crazy features than you used to expect...

Originally Posted by it-ogo

And -либо is a bit bookish in style.

I often come across the words "кто-либо" and "что-либо," but in dictionaries, not in everyday life. )

Originally Posted by bitpicker

'Некто' is used only before personal names

As it-ogo have already written, it's not so. There is a riddle with this word. I remember seeing it in the book "Девочка и птицелет" by Владимир Киселев.
_ Девочка стоит на остановке. К ней подходит некто в сером и говорит: «Я тебе не отец, но ты мне — дочь». Кто это был?

«Нечто» may mean some “philosophic”, grandiose unknown, or a thing, which can’t be given a name, «что-то/что-нибудь» have not these aspects. For example, name of the John Carpenter's film “The Thing” was translated into Russian like «Нечто», but not «Что-то».

Originally Posted by Zaya

Девочка стоит на остановке. К ней подходит некто в сером и говорит: «Я тебе не отец, но ты мне — дочь». Кто это был?

Apparently, it was her mother.