Thread: ребёнка / дети

ребёнка / дети

What is the difference? Thanks.

ребёнка — singular number, Genetive/Accusative case.
дети — plural number, Nominative case.

Originally Posted by Rtyom

ребёнка — singular number, Genetive/Accusative case.
дети — plural number, Nominative case.

Sorry. I didn't learn English (my native language) this way, and I'm not learning Russian this way. I don't know anything about Genetive/Accusative, Nominative cases, etc.

I learned that for the word "child", the singular is ребёнoк and the plural is дети. But then later I saw, "четыре ребёнка". Why is it this instead of "четыре дети".

Perhaps most people learn by the "textbook" method, but that doesn't work for me. I am using Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone, and they don't waste time explaining all the technicalities. Thanks for your help.

Notice when you count things in English, you say
one CHILD
two CHILDREN

Well Russian sorta kinda works like that.

one child = один ребёнок
two children = два ребёнка
three children = три ребёнка
four children = четыре ребёнка
five children = пять детей
six children = шесть детей
...

Notice the word ребёнок changes to ребёнка just like "child" changes to "children" when going from one to two.
But in Russian, ребёнка changes to детей when you go from "four" to "five"

Originally Posted by Platinum

Sorry. I didn't learn English (my native language) this way, and I'm not learning Russian this way. I don't know anything about Genetive/Accusative, Nominative cases, etc.

Well, it's too bad. I believe it will take one twice the time to learn Russian without any idea about cases. And it definitely makes explanations longer.

It is really difficult for an adult to learn Russian without learning grammar. And Russian certainly has a lot of it! I learned Russian the normal way in school, and I would suggest you pick up a textbook that explains grammar too.

Otherwise with Pimsleur I think you just have to memorize четыре ребёнка but пять детей. And then wait till they want to explain why. Sticking with Pimsleur alone will leave you with a lot of questions of this type.

It is a lot easier learning the language's grammar -- in this case we just have one grammatical rule: after numbers 2-3-4 (and compounds ending in them, such as 22, 33) use the genitive singular of a noun, after 5 and above use the genitive plural.

Originally Posted by shadow1

Notice the word ребёнок changes to ребёнка just like "child" changes to "children" when going from one to two.
But in Russian, ребёнка changes to детей when you go from "four" to "five"

Ahhh, I see. It works like time:
один час
два часа
три часа
четыре часа
пять часов

I like your explaination, shadow1. And your didn't need to mention cases. No offense, gRomoZeka, but I don't think it's necessary to learn about cases. After all, I'm sure you were speaking fluent English (or whatever your native language) at the age of 5 or 6, without knowing anything about cases.

But then again, I'm just a beginner and can't really know how it's best to learn a new language. For now I'll try it this way, but I might convert later if I must.

Originally Posted by chaika

It is really difficult for an adult to learn Russian without learning grammar. And Russian certainly has a lot of it! I learned Russian the normal way in school, and I would suggest you pick up a textbook that explains grammar too.

Otherwise with Pimsleur I think you just have to memorize четыре ребёнка but пять детей. Sticking with Pimsleur will leave you with a lot of questions of this type.

It is a lot easier learning the language's grammar -- in this case we just have one grammatical rule: after numbers 2-3-4 (and compounds ending in them, such as 22, 33) use the genitive singular of a noun, after 5 and above use the genitive plural.

Chaika, I sorta understand what your saying. I don't mean that grammar is not important, but my idea is that it's just as easy (for me, at least) to memorize четыре ребёнка but пять детей. But you are right...I do have questions like this. But that's where MR forum comes in. Nice people to help!

I do have New Penguin Russian book, and perhaps I will study it on the side, while doing Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone. The more sources, the better, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Platinum

... but I don't think it's necessary to learn about cases. After all, I'm sure you were speaking fluent English (or whatever your native language) at the age of 5 or 6, without knowing anything about cases. ...

Cases in Russian are the same significance as the strict rule of SVO (subject-verb-object) is in English.

Originally Posted by Platinum

Ahhh, I see. It works like time:

Well, actually not just time and children, but ALL words.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Cases in Russian are the same significance as the strict rule of SVO (subject-verb-object) is in English.

I agree. But my 6-year-old daughter knows how to speak near-perfect English. And she has no idea about this strict rule. She doesn't even know what a verb is yet.

My point is...I think you can learn about cases without even knowing the names of the cases. But again, I admit that I'm a beginner and I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by shadow1

Well, actually not just time and children, but ALL words.

LOL. Well, yeah. I don't know many words yet.

Originally Posted by Platinum

I agree. But my 6-year-old daughter knows how to speak near-perfect English. And she has no idea about this strict rule. She doesn't even know what a verb is yet.

But your 6 year old is hearing 1,000s of English words every day, spoken in context, complete with real life situations. And what is more, if your child could have read and understood a text book on English grammar she would have learned quicker.

Originally Posted by Platinum

I agree. But my 6-year-old daughter knows how to speak near-perfect English. And she has no idea about this strict rule. She doesn't even know what a verb is yet.

Mind of a child differs from one of the adult. And to achieve this near-perfectness she spent every moment of her life actively learning English and hearing English everywhere.
Are you going to give up at least 6 years of your life exclusively to Russian?
Anyway, good luck.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Mind of a child differs from one of the adult. And to achieve this near-perfectness she spent every moment of her life actively learning English and hearing English everywhere.
Are you going to give up at least 6 years of your life exclusively to Russian?
Anyway, good luck.

You all make good points. Perhaps I will rethink my plan. At the moment, I just started Rosetta Stone and I'm going through Pimsleur for the second time. I guess my problem is that when I'm using a textbook I get so overwhelmed with the technical jargon, I find that I'm getting frustrated and give up. And many times the vocab lists are too long to retain many of the words.

As I said before, perhaps I will get out my old Penguin book and trudge my way through while I'm using the multi-media things. Thanks everybody for your help and advise...I'm sure I'll have many more questions.

There's a lot to be said for the way learning a second language can teach you a lot about your own language that you didn't know previously, but you won't get that benefit without learning the theory (ie the grammar) rather than just trying to learn the practice.

It sounds like you have had all the resources at hand to learn with. I think it is time to open the New Penguin book.

Originally Posted by DDT

It sounds like you have had all the resources at hand to learn with. I think it is time to open the New Penguin book.

Well, it seems to get very high marks here at MR. I suppose it must be a good book.

Originally Posted by shadow1

six children = шесть детей
...
Notice the word ребёнок changes to ребёнка just like "child" changes to "children" when going from one to two.
But in Russian, ребёнка changes to детей when you go from "four" to "five"

And then back from 20 to 21. And then again...
Сто один ребенок, сто одиннадцать детей.

Originally Posted by Platinum

I agree. But my 6-year-old daughter knows how to speak near-perfect English.

But I hope you manage to learn Russian to some extent by some more easy way than 6 year long total immersion?

My point is...I think you can learn about cases without even knowing the names of the cases.

Yes, but explaining something to somebody about cases is more simple using case name than 'uhmm that stiff that comes with 'кого/чего'