Как обыно отвечают на вопрос: «Где живёт Ваша семья?»
Она живёт в Москве.
Они живут в Москве.
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Как обыно отвечают на вопрос: «Где живёт Ваша семья?»
Она живёт в Москве.
Они живут в Москве.
"В Москве".
+1 Just "В Москве". No one in his right mind would go all the way for "Она живет в Москве" - it's too long and you can use much shorter forms of sentences - it's perfectly legal even from the point of view of official grammar.
To answer the question about which particular pronoun to use with the family I will be so mean and ask a counter question - which pronoun should I use in English - it or they regarding family? :)
Methinks, both pronouns would be ok. But you don't need to say "Она/они живут в Москве" - just "В Москве" will do.
Но. Если так сложилось, что человек, которого спрашивают, и его семья временно живут в разных местах (т.е. городах, странах), то второй вариант покатит. Первый мне нравится меньше.))Quote:
Originally Posted by doninphxaz
А если все живут вместе, то и спросят скорее "Где вы живёте?", а не "Где живёт Ваша семья?", но это по контексту, конечно, лучше определять.)
Мы живём в Москве.
а я живу в Саннивейл!
Если отвечать в полной форме, то я бы выбрал первый вариант.
Зая, мы с тобой разошлись во мнениях. :)
No, in English if the question is "Where does your family live?", we say, "They live in Moscow." We would never say, "It lives in Moscow."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
а я думал, ты живешь в Клаудимаунт! :lol2:Quote:
а я живу в Саннивейл!
I guess I wrote rubbish originally. Now I've corrected it.
Господа, не вводите других в заблуждение. Единственный верный вариант это "Она живет в Москве". "Они живут в Москве" - не верно.
Единственно верный с точки зрения грамматики и логики - да, но так же почти что никогда не говорят!
Я за заин ответ: "В Москве".
Либо: "Моя семья живёт в Москве."
But you can say: "My family is from Moscow"Quote:
Originally Posted by doninphxaz
I was wondering what a person from the UK would say. I know that typical American and British English differs on this point sometimes. Collective nouns, I mean. I'm a bit surprised, though, because I expected you to say, "My family are from Moscow." Is "family" an exception?Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Personally, I think British English has it right. If you would use the pronoun 'they' in place of the noun, it must be treated as plural, and if you use "it", then it ought to be singular.
In Russian, though, since each noun has a gender, collective nouns are still "he/she/it" regardless. That's how I understand it, anyway.
"Они.." if a full sentence is required for any reason.
Вполне может быть. Если расспрашивают человека о его жене, детях, а потом задают вопрос: "Где живёт Ваша семья?" Поскольку ясно, кто подразумевается под словом "семья", "они" - самое оно.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihail_K
Так что не надо так категорично.)
И вообще, все эти "она" да "они" подразумевают, что человек отделяет себя от семьи, не является с ней одним целым. Если это так - то пожалуйста. Но вообще я посоветую не заморачиваться и говорить просто "в Москве". Общение - не урок, так что не нужно давать полный вариант ответа. А зачастую так и вовсе нежелательно.
Еще вариант. Если вся его семья - он да жена, то и спросят не "Где живёт ваша семья?", а "Где вы (он + жена) живёте?" или, опять-таки, если он какое-то время проводит вне дома, а до этого они с женой жили попеременно в двух странах, могут спросить "Где [сейчас] живёт Ваша жена?" (т.е. в какой из этих стран она осталась).
У творческих людей всякое бывает.)
Yes there is a general difference in British and American usage. For example,Quote:
Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot
Chelsea is the best football team in London.
Chelsea are the best football team in London.
I can't remember which one would be more American and which more British. In Britain you can hear both, I don't think it makes much difference.
'Majority', a singular noun usually takes the plural form of verbs:
"The majority of people in Britain live [not lives] in urban areas."
Точно. "My family is from Moscow, but they are in Greece this month." That's perfectly normal American English. Grammatically, at least, if not situationally.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
A Brit might say, "My family are Moscow, but they are in Greece now."
I can't imagine either a Brit or an American saying, "My family is/are in Greece, but it is in Greece now."
I think the reason is, in English 'it' is an innanimate pronoun, therefore using it with 'family', a noun which denotes a group of animates, doesn't sound good. In Russian, the pronoun used, ona, is feminine because it agrees with the gender of the noun sem'ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by doninphxaz
In English in most cases we can't use 'he' or 'she' to refer to a innanimate nouns. 'They', as well as meaning more than one person, is also like a neutral gender singular pronoun meaning he/she. E.g. when you are talking about a hyperthetical situation and don't want to say 'he' or 'she' you can use they.
The new employee will have lots of work to do, he/she will have to work very hard.
Or in normal, everday speech:
The new employee will have lots of work to do, they will have to work very hard.
So I think the choice of 'they' over 'it' for 'family' is due to the fact that 'it' is innanimate, 'he' and 'she' are gender specific and therefore don't work, so since a family is more than one person, 'they' is used.
You can hear both in the States, too, but an American is much more inclined to think of a team as "it" even though he will often say "they" in regard to the group collectively. Unless the team name is plural, that is. For example:Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
My team is lousy! They can't win a game!
The LA Lakers are lousy! They can't win a game!
Whereas in Britain you might hear:
England are a great football side.
England is a country of great diversity.
One is a team made up of players, and the other is a political entity. I believe this is correct, and have adjusted my speech accordingly, with only occasional lapses.
2 kt_81
Если Вы не знаете чего-то наверняка, помечайте это чем-нибудь типа "Имхо", "По-моему" и т.д.
Нормы русского языка требуют, чтобы мы использовали "Она ..." но ни как не "Они ..."
1) Язык - не математика, и это хорошо.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihail_K
2) Как точно оформлять то, что я пишу, решаю я и только я. :!: Ну и модераторы в какой-то степени. :twisted:
Может быть, вы не внимательно прочитали первое сообщение? Охотно процитирую
Естественный вариант: "В Москве".Quote:
Как обычно отвечают на вопрос: «Где живёт Ваша семья?»
Если ответ должен содержать "моя семья": "Моя семья живёт в Москве"
Если "она" или "они": Тогда (ВНИМАНИЕ!!!) обычно отвечают: "Они живут в Москве".
Слово "обычно" подразумевает, как правило, вероятность больше 0.5, намного больше. Естественно, тут у каждого будет свой опыт, не зря автор темы создал опрос. Я не слыхал вариант с "она", для меня это звучит страно. Опрос как раз для того и сделан - спросить МНЕНИЕ (вот оно где, ваше "ИМХО"), кто что как слыхал, у кого какой опыт. Писать допольнительно "ИМХО" абсолютно избыточно. Естественно я буду говорить только за себя, хотя носителей языка несколько десятков милионов.
2 kt_81
Я так думаю, мы просто по-разному понимаем вопрос.
Я глубоко убежден, что русский язык - не статистическая механика. И это хорошо. Он имеет свои правила (быть может не такие строгие, как в математике, но тем не менее). И правильность того или иного выражения не может определяться тем, как часто его употребляют массы (к слову сказать, "массы" в наше время в большинстве своем довольно неграмотные).
Правило в студию! А до тех пор, пока оно не появится, я буду считать правильными оба варианта (с оговорками, которые я уже приводила).
ВОТ ЭТО уже очень интересная и обширная (можно сказать, бесконечная) тема, где ИМХО :) заранее не может быть "победителей", и которая как минимум один раз поднимается на каждом боле-менее серьёзном языковом форуме.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihail_K
Краткая версия: я по этому вопросу не так категоричен как вы. Но я и не лингвист, не знаю, как вы. :D
No, that is an overgeneralization. I am an educated (Ph.D.) native speaker of American English, so I speak with a native-speaker's insight. In American English the normal verb form to use when 'family' is subject of a sentence is a third person singular verb. If you say "My family are..." in the US, that will sound wrong to the majority of native speakers. In Britain it is common to have plural verbs with singular nouns when the singular noun refers to more than one person, but, not being a Brit, I cannot judge whether that is the more common form there, although I suspect it is. Similarly:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauratuli
Britain: The Parliament are in session.
America: Congress is in session.
Britain: My family are on holiday in Greece.
America: My family is on vacation in Greece.
D.
О русском языке:
При подлежащем, имеющем в своем составе собирательное существительное с количественным значением (большинство, меньшинство, ряд, часть и др.), сказуемое может стоять в единственном числе (г р а м м а т и ч е с-
к о е согласование) и во множественном числе (согласование п о с м ы с л у).
http://www.spelling.spb.ru/rosenthal/alpha/r183.htm
About English:
Some nouns, like committee, clergy, enemy, group, family, and team, refer to a group but are singular in form. These nouns are called collective nouns. In American usage, a collective noun takes a singular verb when it refers to the collection considered as a whole, as in The family was united on this question or The enemy is suing for peace. It takes a plural verb when it refers to the members of the group considered as individuals, as in My family are always fighting among themselves or The enemy were showing up in groups of three or four to turn in their weapons. In British usage, collective nouns are more often treated as plurals: The government have not announced a new policy. The team are playing in the test matches next week. 1
Be careful not to treat a collective noun as both singular and plural in the same construction. Thus you should say The family is determined to press its (not their) claim. 2
Collective nouns always refer to living creatures. Similar inanimate nouns, such as furniture and luggage, differ in that they cannot be counted individually. That is why you cannot buy a furniture or a luggage. These nouns are usually called mass nouns or noncount nouns. They always take a singular verb: The bedroom furniture was on sale. \
The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.
IMHO. При слове "семья" сказуемое стоит в единственном числе, но совершенно не могу себе представить подстановку местоимения "она" вместо существительного "семья".
I won't argue with the rest of your general assertions, but this example is incorrect. The word "parliament" is very definitely singular, unless you are talking about a true plural.Quote:
Originally Posted by doninphxaz
Parliament is in session.
but
Both Houses of Parliament are in session.
Мне это кажется правильно и логично. Особенно в том, что смысл должен править, даже когда приводится единственное слово как "кто", но смысл множественный. Например:Quote:
Originally Posted by Milanya
Большинство людей, кто любят кушать в Макдоналдсе -- полные.
А не:
Большинство людей, кто любит кушать в Макдоналдсе -- полное.
Правильно понял?
Thanks for the correction! I'm a Yank, so my statements about British English can certainly be erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
I believe I have heard people on BBC World Today say, "Parliament have taken a decision..." when I would have expected (from the American point of view) "Parliament has taken a decision..." Perhaps the presence of the "the" or the "in session" phrase makes the singular more likely?
It seems you can't agree. :?
Я отметила первый вариант с "она". Мне кажется, что ответив на этот вопрос "Они живут в Москве", ты хочешь дать дополнительную информацию, подчеркнуть, что уже не живёшь со своей семьей.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milanya
I don't think it's the "the" which makes difference, necessarily. I think you have to "feel" the difference. Remember, in my example of "England" it could be done both ways depending on the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by doninphxaz
Parliament is both a single political entity, and a group of people. If you talk about actions being taken, well, obviously it's not the building doing it, but the people who make up Parliament. Therefore, it seems perfectly logical to say, "Parliament have decided..." Because it's "they" who are doing it.
OTOH, "Parliament has been blown up" seems correct to me because now you are talking about an "it". That's how it sits in my mind, anyway, your mileage may vary. I could be an (Edited out. L.) :P
Excellent explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot
Additionally, it would be misleading to suggest that BrE strictly uses plural agreement with groups of people. That may have been the case once, but these days you are probably equally likely to hear either (e.g.) "the crew is unhappy" as "the crew are unhappy", and neither of them sound wrong in any way. It's true that sniffy English Lit proffessors might take massive offense, but pretty much no-one else would even notice.
And besides, English Lit proffessors aren't the arbiters of the English language these days. The media are.*
*and just to contradict myself a little, "the media is..." wouldn't work here, because it would no longer agree with the plural in "abriters", and would make the comparison with "English Lit proffessors aren't..." less elegant. So how would AmE deal with this?
Thanks m8!Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
Well, it's not really an issue because "media" is a plural noun -- you have no choice but to treat it as such. The singular is "medium".
I seem to be noticing more and more, though, that colloquial speech often forgets that "media" is plural. The same could be said about the word "data" (sing. "datum"), which is often treated as a singular, uncountable noun. For example:
"This data proves nothing!" Incorrect, but somehow sounds more natural than:
"These data prove nothing!" Technically correct, but sounds awkward.
Regarding the BrE and AmE treatment of collective nouns, I just thought I'd mention that listening to ESPN sports radio this morning, I heard Mike Golic twice say, "If Florida lose at LSU...". So, I think this is something you will also hear Americans say, just not as often, I think.
Hehe
Blimey.
You know, I got so sick of reminding people that "media" was plural, that I eventually gave up, and subsequently seem to have forgotten that I ever knew it!
I hate it when that happens! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
I knew you knew it, but were just having a "moment". Cheers!
And now the Publishers will fleece us all for a new and "updated" dictionary!Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
You are right, the British tend to use collective nouns as plurals whereas Americans use them as singular nouns.
The important thing is to be consistent.
The family wants its home back.
The family want their home back.
NEVER SAY:
The family wants their home back.
The family want its home back. (Which sounds completely ridiculous to me)
Technically, when you refer to the individuals in the group, you are supposed to use the plural:
The family are always arguing.
Honestly, I have never heard that in my life. It would be better to say, "The family members are always arguing."
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
Yes. Parliament doesn't refer people. It's a noun derived from the French word "parler", "to talk", it basically means "a talk / discussion", therefore it is singular.
The reason why family, team etc., can take a plural is because they are collective nouns referring specifically to a group of people. If you specifically want to refer to the people in parliament, you can use a plural, I think, but it still sounds a bit strange.