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Thread: "На" против "Для"

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  1. #1
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    По этой причине я очень внимательны (because it's plural) внимателен, когда использую русский язык и иногда я предпочитаю не говорить по русский(a typical mistake, we don't ever say по русский because it is an adjective but you have to use an adverb there, which is по-русски) по-русски, если даже знаю все слова.
    Учить структуру русского языка очень трудно.
    Antonio1986 likes this.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  2. #2
    Старший оракул Seraph's Avatar
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    Битва за Москву

    борьба за жизнь

    Accusative.
    Antonio1986 likes this.

  3. #3
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Битва за Москву

    борьба за жизнь

    Accusative.
    И тоже "for", но в схему не укладывается. Да уж, чем дальше в лес, тем толще партизаны.

    Here is another usage of "за" as "for". X за Y - X is an activity to obtain or to keep Y.
    Antonio1986 likes this.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  4. #4
    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    "спасибо для ваших ответов"
    Есть известная шутка в Интернете, из серии "как русские переводчики переводят c английского/на английский":

    (Рус) Вот ответы на Ваши вопросы
    (Eng) This is your questions answers

    Ох, и сложная структура у русского языка, indeed!
    Antonio1986 likes this.
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

  5. #5
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Вы не представляете как трудно общаться с клиентам которые знают исключительно русский.
    Думаю что если даже знаю много слов и использую профессиональную терминологию не могу выиграть ни их внимание ни их уважение потому что я перевожу с английского and I sound weird to them.

  6. #6
    Старший оракул
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    Вы не представляете как трудно общаться с клиентам которые знают исключительно русский.
    Думаю что если даже знаю много слов и использую профессиональную терминологию не могу выиграть ни их внимание ни их уважение потому что я перевожу с английского and I sound weird to them.
    I can understand you But I do not think it is only a problem of Russian. I have to communicate with English-speaking customers from the US, and I often feel exactly the same as you do. I know all the professional terms, I try to construct my phrases properly. But when it comes to some complex logic involved I feel them struggle to understand me. Not everything can be easily translated from one language to another one. There are lots of tricky expressions if not to count compound sentences, conditions, subjunctions, tense nuances etc. Phrasal verbs drive me crazy as well.

  7. #7
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Вы думаете что кто-то который хочет выучить русский язык очень хорошо должен поехать и пожить в России?
    Я выучил английски очень хорошо прежде чем поехать в Англию.
    Однако никто может сравнить русский и английский язык потому что первый 5 times труднее.
    The only beauty of the English language is phrasal verbs and the slang.

  8. #8
    Властелин
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    Конечно, неплохо бы пожить тут, чтобы улучшить язык... Проживание здесь очень много даст. Это всегда так. Для любого языка. It goes without saying.

  9. #9
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Yes, it's true.

    На год, неделю, день, час etc.
    The same is true for планы на будущее
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  10. #10
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Боб Уайтман

    How could you miss this awful sentence?

    When I was sick, he read my paper for (instead of) me at the congress.

    The site claims that the correct Russian would be:
    Когда я заболел, он выступил за мной
    на съезде.


    Which is complete nonsense.

    За мной there implies either the physical location like behind me or a sequence like right after me

    But the whole sentence conveys the fact that the man took the sick man's place and did the sick man's job. So it has to be:

    Когда я заболел, он выступил за меня
    на съезде.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  11. #11
    Старший оракул
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    Yes, it should be "за меня". But where did you see "за мной"? There is a blank space which is supposed to be filled by a student.

  12. #12
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    Yes, it should be "за меня". But where did you see "за мной"? There is a blank space which is supposed to be filled by a student.
    Quote Originally Posted by iCake
    The site claims that the correct Russian would be:
    Когда я заболел, он выступил за мной
    на съезде.
    Just type за мной in the blank space for this example and it says "правильно"!
    But if you type the actually correct за меня it gives you a hint '[in exchange for me]', suggesting that you reconsider your answer.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  13. #13
    Старший оракул
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    Quote Originally Posted by iCake View Post
    Just type за мной in the blank space for this example and it says "правильно"!
    But if you type the actually correct за меня it gives you a hint '[in exchange for me]', suggesting that you reconsider your answer.
    Ah, I see! Sorry, I did not even think of checking the answers as well

  14. #14
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Well, let's try to explain what each time preposition means then. I warn you it might be confusing or not accurate 100%, still it's worth a shot.

    За - For me it indicates the continuity of the respected action and what I mean is that it gives me a notion that the respected action is stretched during the time stamp of the given time.

    За три дня я выучил/выучу/учу 40 слов - It kind of means that you constantly learn withing those three days.

    На - It's kind of for how long the action is active in the time you provide.

    Его посадили (посадят/садят) на 2 года - He's been charged 2 years in prison
    Статуя рассчитана на 40 лет - The statue is considered to last for 40 years.

    Через - this just shows what will/does/did happen after the period of time you provided

    Через десять минут будет готов завтрак - The breakfast will be fixed in 10 minutes
    Он закончил говорить через десять минут - He stopped talking after 10 minutes
    Я иду в школу через два дня - I'll go to school in two days

    Нет предлога - Well, that's kind of tricky to explain this one. Well, it's usually used to say for how long the action is/was/will be active

    Он хромал десять дней - He was limping for 10 days
    Я думал пять минут - I was/have been thinking for 5 minutes
    Я думаю 5 минут - I am/have been thinking for 5 minutes

    Well, I don't think it's gonna help but at least I tried
    bublinka likes this.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  15. #15
    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    1. We opened two new factories in / during three years = Мы закрыли два новых завода за три года.
    Мы открыли два новых завода ...
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

  16. #16
    Властелин Medved's Avatar
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    Antonio, the word "против" doesn't sound quite ok in such sentences like the title of the thread.
    If you want to convey the meaning of "versus", say "или".
    Antonio1986 likes this.
    Another month ends. All targets met. All systems working. All customers satisfied. All staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready to fly.

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