Thread: "На" против "Для"

We say спасибо за + accusative. The rest of your Russian is good

Originally Posted by iCake

We say спасибо за + accusative. The rest of your Russian is good

Some more rules of thumb for you. (In this case "for you" is "для вас", since you are supposed to USE those rules, you NEED them, and you somewhat BENEFIT from them).

If you say "спасибо для ваших ответов" it sounds non-Russian of course, but I would like to underline what it means: it means as if your "спасибо" is needed for "our answers", as if "our answers" will use your "спасибо" in some way. That is why it sounds strange.
You can say "тетрадь для записей" (a writing-book for (making) notes), because this "тетрадь" is intended to be USED for making notes in it. One needs "тетрадь" to make notes. So, "тетрадь для записей" is OK.
You can say "книга для детей" (a book for children), since this book is intended to be used by children.
You can say "стоянка для машин" (a parking for cars), since the cars are supposed to use this parking. This parking is needed for cars. Although, you can also say just "стоянка машин" (a parking of cars), which is correct too.
You can say "ручка для письма" (a pen for writing), because this pen is required for writing, it is used to write.
You can say "тарелка для супа" (a plate for soup), since this plate is going to be used to pour some soup in it, it is needed for soup. Do not confuse it with "тарелка супа" (a plate of soup). In this case, they are different: "тарелка супа" is a plate with soup in it. "Тарелка для супа" can be an empty plate.

Now if you compare "тетрадь для записей", "книга для детей", "стоянка для машин", "ручка для письма", "тарелка для супа" etc. you will see something in common in all of them.
And compare it with "спасибо для ответов". Do you feel it does not match the pattern above?

The preposition "за" has a different meaning. One of its meanings is "in exchange of something". You give "спасибо" in exchange of our answers. So, the right way to say it is "спасибо за ваши ответы!"

If you pay for something, you give money in exchange of what you buy: "заплатить за обучение" - to pay for education.
"Он платит мне 10 долларов в день за мою работу" - He pays me 10 dollars a day for my work.
"Я хочу вас поблагодарить за вашу помощь" - I want to thank you for your help.

You can also use "за" in noun+noun combinations:
"деньги за работу" is "money for work" (money which is paid in exchange of work)
"5 рублей за билет" is "5 roubles for a ticket"
"благодарность за услугу" is "gratitude for service"

And one more example to underline the difference between "для" and "за":
"деньги за работу" is a typical expression which means "money (paid) for work", i.e. it is money in exchange of someone's work.
"деньги для работы" is a bit strange, but theoretically possible. This one means "money you need for your work to be done". Imagine, your work involves bribing some powerful people This is actually you job: you are a secret agent, and you bribe some officials, so you force them to make some "correct" decisions. Jokingly In this case, the money you need to do your secret job can be called "деньги для работы".

The preposition "за" has a different meaning. One of its meanings is "in exchange of something". You give "спасибо" in exchange of our answers. So, the right way to say it is "спасибо за ваши ответы!"

If you pay for something, you give money in exchange of what you buy: "заплатить за обучение" - to pay for education.
"Он платит мне 10 долларов в день за мою работу" - He pays me 10 dollars a day for my work.
"Я хочу вас поблагодарить за вашу помощь" - I want to thank you for your help.

You can also use "за" in noun+noun combinations:
"деньги за работу" is "money for work" (money which is paid in exchange of work)
"5 рублей за билет" is "5 roubles for a ticket"
"благодарность за услугу" is "gratitude for service"

What the following expression means: Я перевел текст за два часа.
I cannot use: Я перевел текст на два часа?

Also what it means:
1. Он за год изучил русский язык
2. За вечер он подготовился к докладу
3. За день она выучила 25 новых слов.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

What the following expression means: Я перевел текст за два часа.
I cannot use: Я перевел текст на два часа?

Also what it means:
1. Он за год изучил русский язык
2. За вечер он подготовился к докладу
3. За день она выучила 25 новых слов.

Я перевел текст за два часа - It took me two hours to translate the text
Я перевел текст на два часа doesn't even make much sense

Он за год изучил русский язык - It took him a year to learn Russian
За вечер он подготовился к докладу - He prepared a report over evening

За день она выучила 25 новых слов - She learned 25 new words over that day

As you see за + time shows how much time it took to do something

As you see за + time shows how much time it took to do something

My simple conclusions are:
1. за + ... = In + time period
2. на + ... = For + time period

Because I always want to verified what I learned I wrote the following expressions:
1. We opened two new factories in / during three years = Мы закрыли два новых завода за три года.
2. They have issued the new driving licence in six days = Выдали новые водительские права за шесть дней.
3. He sold his soul to the devil for 100 years = Он продал свою душу дьяволу на сто лет.
4. Can you imagine your self after 10 years = Можете представить себя после десяти лет.
5. I will finish my research in 30 days = Я закончу свое исследование за тридцать дней .
6. After the accident he couldn't walk for 5 years = После аварии, он мог ходить на пять лет .
7. The deficit will be covered in 3 years = Дефицит покроется за три года.
8. He spent three days alive in the cold see, after his boat was sunk = Он провел три дня жив в холодном море, после того как его лодка затонул.
9. Soviet Union lasted for 69 years = Союз Советских Социалистических Республик длился на шестьдесят девять лет
10. During the last five days I slept less than 10 hours = За последние пять дней я спал менее десяти часов or В течение пяти дней я спал менее чем десять часов or Во время пять дней я спал менее десяти часов

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

My simple conclusions are:
1. за + ... = In + time period
2. на + ... = For + time period

1. We opened two new factories in / during three years = Мы закрыли два новых завода за три года. - Good
2. They have issued the new driving licence in six days = Выдали новые водительские права за шесть дней. - Good
3. He sold his soul to the devil for 100 years = Он продал свою душу дьяволу на сто лет. - Good
4. Can you imagine your self after 10 years = Можете представить себя ЧЕРЕЗ десять лет.
5. I will finish my research in 30 days = Я закончу свое исследование за тридцать дней . - Good. However, this will be true if you estimate the TOTAL you need to finish your research. BUT, if you say when the research will be finished, for example, you've been working on it for some time but you say when it's finished you have to say:
Я закончу своё исследование через тридцать дней.

6. After the accident he couldn't walk for 5 years = После аварии, он НЕ мог ходить [B пять лет[/B]. You don't need any preposition before time expression here
7. The deficit will be covered in 3 years = Дефицит покроется за три года. - Good
8. He spent three days alive in the cold see, after his boat was sunk = Он провел три дня в холодном море, после того как его лодка затонула. - No need to use жив in there.
9. Soviet Union lasted for 69 years = Союз Советских Социалистических Республик просуществовал шестьдесят девять лет - No preposition needed. And длился is not good in this case
10. During the last five days I slept less than 10 hours = За последние пять дней я спал менее десяти часов or В течение пяти дней я спал менее чем десять часов or Во время пять дней я спал менее десяти часов - The first variant is just great and very natural, the second one is not that good still acceptable, although it doesn't directly say that you didn't sleep well the last five days, maybe those 5 days were 5 days from some other time in the past. The third one is not good at all.

За последние пять дней я спал менее десяти часов

I think I did a mistake: За последних пять дней.

iCake you have provided an excellent analysis.

And I would like to add that "На" usually is used for time periods associated with the future:
1. Я строю планы на будущее
2. Он продал свою душу дьяволу на сто лет
3. Его посадили на два года.
4. Статуя рассчитана на 40 лет
5. He will be studying for 4 years = Он будет учится на четыре года.