Thread: Крошка/Мужчина

Nouns of common gender (общего рода, marked as м. и ж. in dictionaries) can refer to objects of both genders. They are often emotionally charged and speak of some qualities of objects, or refer to their occupations:
староста, шалунишка, умница, неряха, жадина, непоседа, недотёпа, торопыга, etc.

Both verbs and adjectives in this case are changed accordingly and match the gender of the object in question.
Наш новый староста объявил о собрании. (male)
Наша новая староста объявила о собрании. (female)

Words defining occupations ( м. in dictionaries)
Some words defining occupations can also refer to both genders: врач, учитель, менеджер, etc.
In this case verbs should match the actual gender of the person:
Врач уже пришел (male)
Врач уже пришла (female)

But attributes/adjectives are always in masculine:
Он хороший врач
Она хороший врач

That's why such words are considered to be of masculine gender (NOT common gender).

Masculine nouns ending with -а (-я)
Папа, дядя, юноша, юнга, слуга, братишка, etc.

These nouns just happen to look like they are feminine, but they "act" like usual masculine nouns and should not be confused with nouns of common gender.

So... "крошка" belongs to the first category, thus technically it's correct to say "Мой сладкий крошка". But such a phrase is rather awkward, probably because it's something that is more likely to be said to women, and "крошка" with its "feminine" ending does not help.

Please note, that people often disregard these rules, going with what their guts tell them and saying things like "Наш врач пришел" (about a woman) or "моя кроха" about a boy. So don't be surprised. ))

Does the М. и ж denote Muzh and Zhena? As in you can use both?

Мужской и женский (род) - masculine and feminine (gender)

Masculine nouns ending with -а (-я)
Папа, дядя, юноша, юнга, слуга, братишка, etc.

These nouns just happen to look like they are feminine, but they "act" like usual masculine nouns and should not be confused with nouns of common gender.

'A' declension, masculine noun: From 野

Именительный	па'па	па'пы
Родительный	па'пы	па'п
Дательный	па'пе	па'пам
Винительный одуш.	па'пу	па'п
Творительный	па'пой, па'пою	па'пами
Предложный	па'пе	па'пах

Adjectives are in typical masculine pattern eg доброму папе

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

So... "крошка" belongs to the first category

i don't think so, unlike the listed nouns крошка denotes a unique object which has nothing to do with humans, namely a crumb, therefore it can only have one gender

in relation to humans it's only a metaphor and feminine metaphors usually aren't applied to men and vice versa

Originally Posted by LXNDR

i don't think so, unlike the listed nouns
крошка denotes a unique object which has nothing to do with humans, namely a crumb, therefore it can only have one gender

You are mixing things.
"Крошка" as a crumb is one thing, and "крошка" as a quality of a person is another. The latter it's an emotionally charged word that implies a tiny size (often figuratively, just like "baby" in English does not necessarily mean that the person is young) and corresponds to "крохотный" ("tiny"). They have different grammatical qualities, and it's represented in dictionaries:

крошка
I м. и ж.
(о ребёнке) little one
II ж.
(хлеба и т.п.) crumb

It says clearly that "крошка" in its first meaning can be either masculine or feminine, i.e. of common gender.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

крошка
I м. и ж.
(о ребёнке) little one
II ж.
(хлеба и т.п.) crumb

Which dictionary or online resource did you get this from? Just out of interest as it seems to give more information than Wiktionary which I have been using.

Originally Posted by ShakeyX

Which dictionary or online resource did you get this from? Just out of interest as it seems to give more information than Wiktionary which I have been using.

I use ABBY Lingvo (a desktop edition for 20 languages), it's my favorite dictionary.
They have an online service which is pretty good, though some features (for example, explanatory dictionaries) are not free:
http://www.lingvo.ua/ru/Translate/ru-en/крошка

Don't forget to try links "Примеры" (Examples) and "Словосочетания" (Set expressions) under the search for every word.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

You are mixing things.
"Крошка" as a crumb is one thing, and "крошка" as a quality of a person is another. The latter it's an emotionally charged word that implies a tiny size (often figuratively, just like "baby" in English does not necessarily mean that the person is young) and corresponds to "крохотный" ("tiny"). They have different grammatical qualities, and it's represented in dictionaries:

крошка
I м. и ж.
(о ребёнке) little one
II ж.
(хлеба и т.п.) crumb

It says clearly that "крошка" in its first meaning can be either masculine or feminine, i.e. of common gender.

i think the second meaning is derived from the original meaning, which i think is a crumb
i'm not talking about the variety of modern meanings of the word but about the primal one

if you review the words in the common gender list, none of them describes insentient object, these will represent either human characteristic, profession or occupation

adjectives крохотный and крошечный impose a quality of a crumb onto the objects they describe, which if you break it down means 'small like a crumb'

the verb крошить doesn't mean 'to make small' but 'to break something into tiny pieces (or crumbs)'

Originally Posted by LXNDR

in relation to humans it's only a metaphor and feminine metaphors usually aren't applied to men and vice versa

Metaphors often doesn't depend on the gender of the person they applied to. "Она тормоз", "профессор - дубина".

Originally Posted by Полуношник

Metaphors often doesn't depend on the gender of the person they applied to. "Она тормоз", "профессор - дубина".

agreed, i was talking outta side of my neck making that statement

since we're discussing applicability of adjectives in the opposite gender, your examples are right on point, we wouldn't say профессор - старый дубина, but профессор - старая дубина or not Она - тормоз, но симпатичная тормоз, but Она - тормоз, но симпатичный тормоз

so the adjectives follow the gender of the metaphor word which perfectly applies to the word крошка, and incidentally the examples here

2. КРОШКА, -и; м. и ж. Разг.
1.
Предмет или существо небольшого размера.
2.
Маленький ребёнок. Наша к. уже спит?
3.
Ласковое обращение (к ребёнку, женщине). * Приходи, моя милая к., Приходи посидеть вечерок (Фет). < Крошечка, -и; м. и ж. Уменьш.-ласк. Крошечка-Хаврошечка (персонаж русской народной сказки).

only corroborate that since in none of the phrases adjective or possessive pronoun is in masculine