Thread: Будущее время: Perfective VS быть

One other question for native speakers: Do the points discussed above also apply to NEGATED future constructions, or are the rules a bit different if there's a не accompanying the verb? (After all, in a negated construction, the action is "non-completed" in any case!)

For example, as I understand things, if one wanted to say I won't have read (="have finished reading") this book by Thursday, then the choice of aspect would be clear -- future perfective is mandatory:

Я не прочитаю эту книгу к четвергу.

But when there's no specified time of completion, and one simply wants to say "I won't read the book," is there a difference between the following two?:

Я не прочитаю эту книгу.
Я не буду читать эту книгу.

I would interpret the imperfective construction as emphasizing "I am determined to never read this book under any circumstances" -- in other words, a negated imperfective future has some implication of никогда, ни за что!

On the other hand, I know that it's totally possible to use никогда with a negated future perfective (я никогда не забуду, for example).

So I'm interested to hear the opinions of natives about this.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

One other question for native speakers: Do the points discussed above also apply to NEGATED future constructions, or are the rules a bit different if there's a не accompanying the verb? (After all, in a negated construction, the action is "non-completed" in any case!)

For example, as I understand things, if one wanted to say I won't have read (="have finished reading") this book by Thursday, then the choice of aspect would be clear -- future perfective is mandatory:

Я не прочитаю эту книгу к четвергу.

But when there's no specified time of completion, and one simply wants to say "I won't read the book," is there a difference between the following two?:

Я не прочитаю эту книгу.
Я не буду читать эту книгу.

I would interpret the imperfective construction as emphasizing "I am determined to never read this book under any circumstances" -- in other words, a negated imperfective future has some implication of никогда, ни за что!

On the other hand, I know that it's totally possible to use никогда with a negated future perfective (я никогда не забуду, for example).

So I'm interested to hear the opinions of natives about this.

Yes, you're adsolutely right.

Я не буду читать эту книгу -- I will never ever read the book
Я не буду его слушать - I will never ever listen to him

Я никогда не забуду - yes, that's perfect too, that's the way to emphasize that you will never forget something

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Я не прочитаю эту книгу.

This can be translated as
1. I will not be able to read(finish reading) this book. It's way too hard
2. I won't even start reading this book. 'Cause I don't feel like doing it.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Я не буду читать эту книгу.

I would interpret the imperfective construction as emphasizing "I am determined to never read this book under any circumstances" -- in other words, a negated imperfective future has some implication of никогда, ни за что!

Yes, most often it expresses intention not necessarily so categorical. "I am not going to read this book" will do.

Though it is not only possible way.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

For example, as I understand things, if one wanted to say I won't have read (="have finished reading") this book by Thursday, then the choice of aspect would be clear -- future perfective is mandatory:

Я не прочитаю эту книгу к четвергу.

But when there's no specified time of completion, and one simply wants to say "I won't read the book," is there a difference between the following two?:

Я не прочитаю эту книгу.
Я не буду читать эту книгу.

I would interpret the imperfective construction as emphasizing "I am determined to never read this book under any circumstances" -- in other words, a negated imperfective future has some implication of никогда, ни за что!

On the other hand, I know that it's totally possible to use никогда with a negated future perfective (я никогда не забуду, for example).

Your examples are correct.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

One other question for native speakers: Do the points discussed above also apply to NEGATED future constructions, or are the rules a bit different if there's a не accompanying the verb? (After all, in a negated construction, the action is "non-completed" in any case!)

So I'm interested to hear the opinions of natives about this.

Well, Robert, you know, the easiest thing for a native speaker would be just to comment a specific example, whether it sounds naturally or not. Or if there is any difference in meaning.

But you are asking a general question, and it is quite difficult to formalize some rules for it.

Originally Posted by Valda

Эти тонкости интересные. Я НЕ БУДУ забывать их

First I felt ready to say it is an incorrect usage. But later I changed my mind. So, let's try to examine this specific example.

As Robert noticed, "Я никогда не забуду" is the only correct option if taken out of context. At least, it is how it seems to be.
We usually say: "Я никогда не забуду тебя / свою первую любовь / твою доброту / это путешествие etc." In all those examples, there is a single thing which one promises to never forget. So, it can be (in possibility) only a single event of "forgetting" that thing. Let's imagine this possibility in the future timeline:

I remember Valda's help. -- I still remember Valda's help. -- I forget Valda's help. -- I do not remember Valda's help anymore

As you can see, the very moment of "forgetting" has zero time-duration, and it is a single event which separates the two states: "state of rememebering" and "state of non-remembering". And what the speaker actually does is that he promises this single event will never happen: Я никогда не забуду помощь Валды I think, it explains why the perfective is the only option for those examples.

However, Valda proposed another interesting example: "Я не буду забывать их". At least to me, it may seem unnatural at the first glance. However, later I found examples where it suits fine:
Imagine a child promises his mother: "Я не буду забывать чистить зубы по утрам" (I will never forget to clean my teeth in the morning).

What changed? The fact is this sort of "forgetting" is different from the first one. It is not something which you remember and then suddenly forget forever. It is something which can be forgotten to be done for a specific occurrence, but later one might not forget to do it etc.: on Monday I forget to clean my teeth, on Tuesday I remember, on Wednesday I remember, on Thursday I forget again

So, we face to the "imperfective iterative" in this case. By saying "Я не буду забывать чистить зубы по утрам" the child implies there will be no any single iteration when he forgets to do it, he will remember it every time he has to.

Therefore, Valda's phrase is correct if she means she will remember those subtleties everytime she speaks Russian: there will be no any single event I forget to use the proper verb aspect - that's what her sentence means.