Thread: Words ending in -ся...

I see them around a lot; what are they and why are they used?

Originally Posted by Pippynip

I see them around a lot; what are they and why are they used?

Here you go:

Russian Reflexive Verbs - Russian Grammar

Scott

Also: Russian Reflexive Verbs - Official website of the Moscow Lomonosov State University Russian Language Centre

For Russian: Page - Encoding - KOI8-R
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Russian Reflexive Verbs


Despite their name, reflexive verbs do much more than reflect
the reference of the subject in the object of a sentence. In fact, reflexive
verbs are responsible for five distinct grammatical functions. The reflexive
suffix -ся may mark any of the following functions:

1. Genuine Reflexive	Он купает-ся.	He is bathing (himself).
2. Passive Voice	Правила здесь соблюдаются.	Rules are followed here.
3. Reciprocal	Они встретились в саду.	They met in the garden.
4. Optative Voice	Мне не спится.	I'm not sleepy.
5. Middle Voice	Комары кусаются	The mosquitos are biting.

This page will help you sort these types of uses of the
reflexive verb. But first, let's take a look at a pronunciational variation it
is subject to.

The suffix -ся is a reduction of the reflexive pronoun себя but
it is reduced even more after vowels. The full suffix is pronounced only after
consonants; after vowels, it is pronounced (and spelled) -сь. Take a look
at the conjugation of бояться, a verb that only occurs with this suffix.

я боюсь	"I'm afraid"	мы боимся	"we're afraid"
он боялся	"he was afraid"	она боялась	"she was afraid"
оно боялось	"it was afraid"	они боялись	"they were afraid"

Notice that if the verb form ends on a vowel, -ся is reduced to -сь in all the tenses. (This reduction does not take place after the adjectival endings of participles, however, even when they end on vowels.)

Genuine Reflexives

Real reflexive verbs are verbs whose subject and direct object are identical, that is, refer to the identical thing in the real world. In English we often ignore the difference. We use the same verb to say, The barber shaves my brother and My brother shaves, even though there is an understood direct object in the second sentence whose reference the same as that of the subject, my brother. Other verbs require a reflexive pronoun in English, e.g. He cut his brother versus He cut himself. You can't simply say, He cut in English in this case to mean "he cut himself" as we can say He shaved.

In Russian it is never possible to ignore reflexivity. Because Russian has such an strong case system, distinguishing subjects and objects is very important. However, as in all languages, repetition is frowned upon, so, Russian uses a suffix on the verb to indicate where a direct object is identical with the subject. That suffix is -ся. Here are some examples to illustrate the point.

Normal Transitive Verb	Reflexive Correlate
Александра купает детей. Alexandra is bathing the kids.	Александра купается. Alexandra is bathing (herself).
Борис Сергеевич бреет брата. Boris Sergeevich is shaving his brother.	Борис Сергеевич бреется. Boris Sergeevich is shaving (himself).
Маша одевает дочку. Masha is dressing her daughter.	Маша одевается. Masha is dressing (herself).
Паша умывает собаку. Pasha is washing up the dog.	Паша умывается. Pasha is washing up.
Шимпанзе причёсывает друга. The chimpanzee is combing her friend.	Шимпанзе причёсывается. The chimpanzee is combing herself.

Reciprocal Reflexive Verbs

Just as -ся imitates the sense of the reflexive pronoun себя on the reflexive reflexive verb, it can also imitate the meaning of the reciprocal pronouns друг друга. That is its function when it marks reciprocal reflexive verbs. Rather than indicate that the direct object and subject are the same, the reciprocal verb indicates that the subjects of the verb carry out its activity on each other. Notice that this implies that the subject of reciprocal reflexive verbs must refer to no more or fewer than two objects. Here are some examples of what I mean.

Reciprocal Verb	Reсiprocal Verb
Борис и Александр боролись. Boris and Alexandr wrestled (each other).	Мы скоро увидимся. We will soon see each other (meet).
Анна и Зина втретились в городе. Anna and Zina met (each other) in town.	Они вседа ссорятся. They constantly argue (with each other).
Анна и Зина познакомились в Минске. Anna and Zina met (each other) in Minsk.	Они совещались до начала работы. They conferred before beginning the job.

The reciprocal use of the reflexive verb is most often associated with the prefix пере-, as the following examples illustrate.

Normal Transitive Verb	Prefixed Reflexive Correlate
Они пишут друг другу. They write each other.	Они переписываются. They correspond.
Борис и Сергей ругали друг друга. Boris and Sergei argued at each other.	Борис и Сергей переругались. Boris and Sergei exchanged words.
Мама и папа взглянули друг на друга. Mom and dad glanced at each other.	Мама и папа переглянулись. Mom and dad exchanged glances.
Мафиози выстрелили друг в друга. The mafiosi shot at each other.	Мафиози перестрелялись. The mafiosi exchanged fire.

Passive Reflexive Verbs

The passive voice is a verb form that allows what is semantically the direct object to become the subject. The subject, if it is included, is expressed in the instrumental case. Passive constructions are used when the topic of the conversation is the direct object of the sentence someone wishes to express. (The topic of a conversation usually starts the sentences that make them up.)

Russians use the passive voice far less than we do in English. The reason is that Russians prefer third person indefinite clauses like They make cars in Detroit, which are more indefinite since in Russian the indefinite they may be omitted: В Детроите делают машины. However, when they do use passive clauses, they must observe two different construction types: one for imperfective verbs and another for perfective ones.

If the verb is perfective, Russians must use the Past passive participle in a construction with some form of "be", just as we do in English: предложение было полно обсуждено "the proposal was fully discussed." However, if the verb is imperfective, passivity is indicated by the same reflexive suffix we have been examining on this page: предложение сейчас обсуждается "the proposal is being discussed now." Here are some more examples.

Active Imperfective	Passive Imperfective
Портной кроит костюм. The tailor is making him a suit.	Костюм кроится портным. The suit is being made by a tailor.
В Москве новые дома строят. They are building new houses in Moscow.	В Москве новые дома строятся. New houses are being built in Moscow.
Зеркало отражает свет. The mirror reflects the light.	Свет отражается зеркалом. The light is reflected by the mirror.
Солдаты собирают картошку. Soldiers are gathering potatoes.	Картошка собирается солдатами. The potatoes are being gathered by soldiers.

Remember, you can't say *Картошка собралась солдатами in Russian for the verb is in the perfective aspect. Only imperfective verbs may be used to form passives with the suffix -ся. To say The potatoes were gathered by the soldiers you must use the past passive participle: картошка была собрана солдатами.

Optative Reflexive Verbs

The optative mood is one which suggests a desire or inclination to do something. In English we say I would like to V or I feel like V-ing in the same situations where the optative would be used in languages with this mood. Russian optatives are always impersonal constructions with the subject in the dative case followed by the 3rd person singular form of the verb. In English, we would say I'm sleepy, for example, meaning I feel like sleeping; Russians would say мне спится. Here are some more examples to consider. (Notice that this mood is usually used in the negative.)

Ивану сегодня не работается.	Ivan doesn't feel like working today.
Мне не сидится дома.	I don't like to stay home.
Мне не пишется сейчас.	I don't feel like writing now.

The very most commonly used in this construction is хотеть "want". Мне (не) хочется "I don't feel like . . ." is a milder form of я (не) хочу "I don't want . . . " and is used as frequently as the stronger alternate.
Another way of expressing the optative in Russian is with the conditional: я бы поел кашу "I feel like eating kasha" or "I wouldn't mind eating some kasha".

Middle Voice Reflexive Verbs

Middle voice is a reflexive form which some transitive verbs require when no direct object is used. It is particularly associated with verbs expressing the unpleasant activities of animals.

Regular Active Voice	Middle Voice
Собака кусает детей. The dog bites children.	Собака кусается. The dog bites.
Корова бодает деревья. The cow butts trees.	Корова бодается. The cow butts.
Утюг жжёт пальцы. The iron will burn your fingers.	Утюг жжётся. The iron burns.
Ёжик колет врагов. The hedgehog pricks its enemies.	Ёжик колется. The hedgehog is prickly.

Lexical Reflexive Verbs

Finally, there are a few verbs that simply have the suffix -ся for no partcular reason. They are simply memorized that way. Some are transitive; others are not. If a verb with the suffix -ся is transitive, however, its object will not take the accusative case but will require one of the other, oblique cases.

Verbs on -ся
боять-ся "be afraid" Собака боится детей. The dog is afraid of children.	смеять-ся "laugh" Не смейся надо мной! Don't laugh at me!
гордить-ся "be proud" Ваня гордится сыном. Vanya is proud of his son.	(по)казать-ся "seem" Митя кажется больным. Mitya seems sick.
оставай-ся|остань-ся "remain, stay" Он остался дома. He stayed home.	просыпай-ся|проснул-ся "wake up" Сегодня я проснулся поздно. Today I woke up late.
случит-ся "happen" Что случилось? What happened?	становит-ся - "begin, become" Становится темнее. It's getting darker

There are others which you will have to look out for. Unfortunately, they simply have to be memorized.

Woah! Спасибо большое indeed!

"If a verb with the suffix -ся is transitive, however, its object will not take the accusative case but will require one of the other, oblique cases."

Transitive means that the direct object can be made a subject of a passive sentence, which is not possible here. The direct object is in accusative case. Such verbs take objects, but they are no direct objects, the verb cannot be transferred (is not transitive). Therefore these verbs aren't transitive.

which are more indefinite since in Russian the indefinite they may be omitted

"They" must be omitted here.

В Москве новые дома строят.
They are building new houses in Moscow. В Москве новые дома строятся.
New houses are being built in Moscow.

Sentences created by Yoda. В Москве строят новые дома. В Москве строятся новые дома.

one simple rule to determine, should you use "ь" before the "ся" or not - is the question that does for the verb "что делать?" или "что делает?"... If the question contain "Ь", so the verb contains it too.
for example, the sentence:
1. Он пошел умыться. Вопрос - что он пошел делатЬ? - ответ - умыватЬся.
2. Он умывается. Вопрос - что он делает? Ответ - умывается.

Originally Posted by rusalka_s

one simple rule to determine, should you use "ь" before the "ся" or not - is the question that does for the verb "что делать?" или "что делает?"... If the question contain "Ь", so the verb contains it too.
for example, the sentence:
1. Он пошел умыться. Вопрос - что он пошел делатЬ? - ответ - умыватЬся.
2. Он умывается. Вопрос - что он делает? Ответ - умывается.

Это нам, имеющим чувство языка, таким образом можно определиться, да и то не всегда. Думаю, что для изучающих русский, это не работает.
Чайка, что скажешь?

Русалка, добро пожаловать к нам!

Для них просто такой проблемы нет. Это ошибка типа there/their/they're, которую делают только носители.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Русалка, добро пожаловать к нам!

Здравствуйте!

Мне в свое время в школе это правило помогло навсегда забыть о подобных ошибках поэтому решила поделиться. Даже интересно, носители языка (то есть русские) часто делают такие ошибки, а иностранцы изучающие русский не делают вообще? реально круто

а иностранцы изучающие русский не делают вообще? реально круто

Они же прибавляют "ся" к глагольному окончанию, то есть создают форму, а не воспроизводят услышанное.